Framing RTI query

[abhijeet]

Dear Members,
I would request to suggest me for framing RTI query after going through the following fact:

It's a very big Coop Hsg. Society, managed by a group of corrupt persons. They were ousted by the High Court's order in 1985. HC also odered to take action against the managing committee members for illegalities committed by them . THE Govt Administrator submitted his report as per HC's order mentioning elaborately many illegalities committed by the MC. The Govt. did not take proper action against those corrupt MC members inspite of repeated directions from the HC. THe Registrar of Co op. Societies of the W.B. Govt. took initiative to take action in 1997 and issued show cause notice to them for financial irregularities of few lakhs of rupees . Even the then RCS advised the Administrator of thast Co op Hsg.Soc to lodge FIR against those MC members in 1997. But that letter was sent in a wrong address which did not reach to the Administrator. RCS was transferred, new RCS did not take any action afterwards, and the relevent files were missing.

Some how we could get the information after about 5 years, but the concerned Dept, the minister, the RCS all are very much " co operative " with those influencial corrupt persons.

Keeping in mind of the fact as above I put some queries to the SPIO of that Dept .After 2nd appeal first hearing held after 4 months of submission of the application, At last I could receive certain information, out of which I would like to discuss two points as below.
3. What action was taken by the office of RCS, W.B for compliance of High Court’s order , up to 2004 for taking suitable steps against the corrupt Ex Managing Committee members of this Housing Society ? If not, please give the names and designations of those officials who were responsible for non compliance of the High Court’s directives.
4. In that case, what action would be taken against those officials who were responsible for non-compliance of the High Court directives, during that period(1988-2004) instead of repeated directions from the Hon’ble High Court ffice:smarttags" />lace w:st="on">Calcuttalace> for taking action against the corrupt Ex Managing Committee members and when it would be done?


The information furnished as below---
3. With reference to the paragraph-3 of the queries , this is to mention that in addition to issuing memo dtd12/09/1997, no action was taken up from the end of the then RCS, since High Court case was pending at the material point of time .
4.With reference to paragraph 4 of the queries, this is to state that Dr. S.K.Biswas took over charge of the Society as Administratir on 01/09/2003 in strict compliance of the order of the order of the Hon'ble Division Bench of Hon'ble HIgh Court at Calcutta and submitted compliance rewport before the Hon'ble Court at Calcutta.

As I was associated with all the Hc and SC Court cases since 1985, and all the Court's orders went against those corrupt members of the MC, but with sincere help and support from the Govt. side as well as the corrupt Administrator like Dr S.K.Biswas nothing could be done till to day. After 18 years once again the corrupt group has come into power on a fraudulent voter list . The election has been challenged, but case is still pending.

There was no bar from the High Court for taking action against them. RCS was categorically imformed that no of times from the Court. (17.8.1990)

So reply wrt 3 is simply false misleading and given with malafide intention. And I could not follow the reply of the q4. That out and corrupt Administrator should have submitted his Compliance Report to the Registrar also: so what was the difficulty of providing information ?

So I would once again request you to frame the suitable query wrt information provided for q3 & q 4.

Ido hope that I could clear the fact, because it is a history of corruption for more than two decades and also fighting against all the odds from all corners as they are much powerful "land mafia" getting help and guidance from all political parties as well as the Administration.

With regards- Abhijeet

[abhijeet]

Dear Members,
With a high hope I requested for some useful suggestion from RTI activists members of RTI Forum. But only 10 members had seen my request, but no body suggested anything. Probably I could not explain the fact properly.

" I tried in the night- nobody did listen to it, now it is morning- but I am not silent......

Abhijeet

[Abhinav Bohare]

Having Patience is another important thumb rule in RTI ...

Things are well drafted in your thread , and soon you would hear comments from RTI experts

All I can suggest , that since you should go through the basic guidelines of framing RTI question or RTI application format and try and ask one question at a time

Question pre-targeted or having exposed intentions are generally tackled with smartness, so it should be neutral in nature and use cover , if you want anything against an individual officer or person, political party, of any such real estate of land anti social groups.

Now Since you are fighting for the cause from last 20 years , who else but you youself would be in the right position to frame a RTI Application....

I am sure you have better answers thn anyone else, so dont be silent but use your inner voice to frame the question.

Or wait I am sure of some expert coming in with suggestions...

[ganpat1956]

Originally Posted by abhijeet

Dear Members,
I would request to suggest me for framing RTI query after going through the following fact:

Dear Abhijeet,
I am just initiating the discussions with the following RTI queries. Hopefully, a few other members will be able to add/modify my suggestions to suit your requirements. There has been some delay in replying your post. Kindly bear with us.

===========================================

Preamble: Please state in brief the details of your Coop Hsg Society matter.

In this connection please furnish the following information in terms of the RTI Act 2005.

1. Please inform me all the guidelines/rules to be followed by the Coop Dept. if financial/other irregularities on the part of the Managing Committee of a Regd coop society are brought out.

2. Please furnish me the details of names and designations of the officials who are empowered to take action as per the rules, in the event of the revelation of such irregularities.

3. With particular reference to the above hsg society, the honourable HC has issued certain directives during the year 1997 to initiate action against the then members of the Managing Committee. Please furnish me the complete details of all such actions taken by the coop dept till the year 2006.

4. Please furnish a certified copy of the compliance report, if any, submitted to the Calcutta High Court in terms of the orders of the Hon. Division Bench of the said court.

5. Please furnish details of all the actions taken against the members of the Managing Committee of .................(name of the hsg. society) in respect of their illegal acts pointed out in the report of the Govt Administrator(mention the date or year of the report).

6. Please furnish me the details of relevant rules/ regulations/guidelines/or any other law in force in your department under which the authorities concerned need not take any action despite directives of the High Court.

7. Please furnish me the names and designations of all the officials who were entrusted with handling the file of ....................... (name of your coop hsg society) during the period 1997 to 2006.

8. Please furnish me certified copies of all the file notings of these officials in respect of their views/recommendations on initiation of appropriate action against the members of the then managing committee of...........................................(name of your society) as per the High Court directives.

9. Is there any rule/regulation/service condition in the coop department to take disciplinary action against its erring officials, in the event of any laxity on their part while complying with the directives of the HIgh Court. If yes, then furnish me the details of all such actions taken for non-compliance of the court orders from 1997 to 2006.

10. Please furnish me the action taken report on this RTI petition form the date of its receipt till the date of reply on a day to day basis.

================================================

[abhijeet]

Dear Ganpat,
It's a very well drafted queries. Thnank you for your initiative and involvement. I shal prepare an application with these queries and am going to submit very soon; now I am not interested to tell about all the difficulties we are facing in our state from those personnel who are dealing RTI matters in public authority. I shall inform you the development after this application's fate. With regards---- Abhijeet

[ganpat1956]

Dear Abhijeet,
I appreciate very much the spirit with which you are pursuing this matter against various odds. I wish you all good luck in this endeavour.

[mpai]

Originally Posted by abhijeet

Dear Ganpat,
It's a very well drafted queries. Thnank you for your initiative and involvement. I shal prepare an application with these queries and am going to submit very soon; now I am not interested to tell about all the difficulties we are facing in our state from those personnel who are dealing RTI matters in public authority. I shall inform you the development after this application's fate. With regards---- Abhijeet

Ganpat has indeed drafted a series of request for information. However, I would recommend that you break up these into several RTI Application.

Most PA explore for the weakest link in your application.... and alas that would nail down your application.

You can request for some of the information under Section 4. Application fee for info u/s 4 is not required. Plus there is no time limit, it has to be provided immediately.

May I suggest the following:-

Application No.1 u/s 4 Questions No.1 & 2 as drafted by Ganpat
Application No.2 u/s 4 Question No. 6 alone to be filed a few days after Appl. No 1.
Application No.3 u/s 6 Questions No.5 & 7 to be filed one week after Appl.No1.
........... and so on.

Let me also warn, that recent development in this field has not been favorable. It would be a long drawn battle. Remember, when the going gets though, the though get going.

My best wishes

Manoj

[abhijeet]

I shall try to inform you another interesting 'episode' of our RTI activities within 2-3 days. I shall request you to suggest future course of action . Thank you for your good suggestion. I have already submitted one with some modifications. As per your recommendation few more application will be submitted.
With regards- Abhijeet

[mpai]

Originally Posted by abhijeet

I shall try to inform you another interesting 'episode' of our RTI activities within 2-3 days. I shall request you to suggest future course of action . Abhijeet

This the Power of One.

Lage Raho

[colnrkurup]

You had also mentioned that the ' relevant files were missing '. If I am in your position I would like to file a request for "insection of those documents (files) under Section 2(j)(i)" and follow it up as per the prevelent departmental rules on accountability on loss of ibid documents also.

[abhijeet]

Dear Sir,
I had already arranged one inspection after a long persuation. But the file had been arranged in such a manner that no catalogue, not properly arranged, relevant papers were not there and no file noting also seen. When asked about the reason of it -- simple reply was we are keeping in this manner. What should I do? A.A of that Dept. is realoly the inert fellow and SIC is simplly advicing them to do their job properly. That's all. Is there any remedy ?
Abhijeet WHEN ORDER IS INJUSTICE....

[abhijeet]

I inspected files also, after a prolong persuation. But point is all the available records kept disorderly. No page marking, proper file noting etc were there. Most important point is that files and records sought foe were missing in that file. When asked, they informrd these are available records, and this is the way how we are maintaining files. I produced two documents which were submitted ( marked with the receiving seal and date )to the Head of that Deptt, but were missing tin the concerned file. No answer was there. Because they know that no body is going to take proper action (penalty or otherwise ) as per RTI Act. There is no incidence of imposing penalty to any SPIO by Our Hon'ble SIC in the Kolkata based Dept .So do whatever you like most ........ Would please comment/suggest something ?--- Abhijeet

[abhijeet]

I inspected files after a long persuation, following proper procedure. But the relevant file was not at all kept properly,there was no file noting , pages were not numbered and papers were arranged without any proper order. Most vital point is that no important document was available there. I produced proof of some documents which were submitted and should have been kept there , but alas! no sought for documents ! I don't know whether they have destroyed the relevant documents. What action is to be followed, when neither A.A nor SIC is taking any initiative to do the needful so that SPIOs do their work, as needed as per RTI Act---- Abhijeet

[ganpat1956]

Dear Abhijeet,

I know you are fighting out a difficult case under unfavourable circumstances. Your group can petition to the governor who is the appointing authority of SCIC. Even if that remedy is already exhausted, I think the only other alternative is to take recourse to Art.226 of the constitution and invoke a writ of mandamus.

If the present administrators of your society are those who got themselves elected to the office in some unauthorised manner, then a writ of quo warranto should lie. Better discuss the matter with a competent advocate.

[maneesh]

abhijit,
it will take some time, but you will enlighten a lot of people in the process.
best wishes.

[colnrkurup]

In such a cituation Iwould follow a different approach viz., From the proofs you have, identify few leters which would have been there but found missing from the files. File a fresh application seeking the information of name of persons responsible for loss of those papers, file notings and any other thing you have observed.

[abhijeet]

Dear Sir,
After a long and troublrsome persuation I could inspect only one file. The file was not arranged properly, no page marking, no proper file noting etc were seen. Some papers/ documents were put haphazardly, without maintaining the chronological order . Most striking feature was that the sought for records were not there--- as it seems that some body had nicely destroyed/misplaced those documents. Probably it was done with a view to avoid embarassment, as during hearing of appeal we produced some documents which were submitted to that department, with proper seal and date mentioning in the receipt.

SIC is very sympathetic to them . I simply do not know what is to be done. 2nd appeal is to be submitted , but in vain?

There is a famous piece of poetry , written by our 'Guru Deb' Rabindra Nath Tagore where KARNA of MAHABHARAT replied to his mother, KUNTI that ' You should not request me to leave the group which is destined to be defeated'

Let Pandavs be winner, let them be the king- I don't want to be one.

Only thing which I want from you that you please bless me so that I should not leave the path of fighting for the JUSTICE.

We shall overcome someday ?---- Abhijeet

[maneesh]

Satya Mev Jayte

[colnrkurup]

May I repeat my method ? When the going become tough, the tough get going ! Please donot let such minor skirmishers distort you from your AIM Weaklings have no place in present world.

[ganpat1956]

Abhijeet,
It is a long and strenuous battle. While being on the front line in this battle, you will learn a lot, a real tactical lot about fights, skirmishes, battles and wars. You will also learn the strategy of when to retreat for safety and when to advance with full fire power. You will also learn the art of not mixing up different issues when pursuing a single cause at one point of time. Ultimately when the dust gets settled, I am sure you will emerge as a fully matured individual. It is a rare and rich experience that only those in the front line of a thick battle acquire.

You once asked me how I am able to offer suggestions everyday. Well, I had been in the thick of quite a few battles, with only a single mentor to offer me advices on such fights and the precautions for not falling into traps. And I had all the patience in the world to live through all such turbulances and kept my hopes high all the time and waited for the right opportunity. Here you have the advantage of a good lot of well-meaning friends to offer you timely advices and very sound ideas. So, never ever despair nor give up. Our hearts are always with you.