Discussions: Proactive Disclosure campaign under Section 4 of RTI Act

[kushal]

This is the discussion thread for the Announcement Proactive Disclosure campaign under Section 4 of RTI Act
Kindly use this thread to Post any bug, suggestion, or comment about the announcement.

Do not use this thread for any other purpose than defined above.

Regards,
Kushal

[ganpat1956]

Excellent piece of work Kushal. For the first time we have initiated a campaign, that too totally non-controversial and quite in tune with stated objectives of our portal. Kudos to RegimonCK and his IIT mates for igniting the spark.

[abhijeet]

I am very much interested wrt 4(1)(d), and raised discussion in this matter in the forum. As the PA of some Deptt. are simply avoiding almost all the queries raised by applicants - this particular sub section of section 4 may be helpful. Already I submitted a few applications (4) , but no positive response received. On 27th I have to attend one hearing , experience of which I shall share with the members, after receiving their response.

[sngupta]

The section 4 may provide so many solutions which may be helpful in transparency and accountability and will satisfy the so many information needs. The discussion on section at this stage is also appreciable as it will clear so many confusions.

[nile0611]

I planning to put this application to BMC Mumbai but since the application is in PDF format I will not be able to put it in the format Annexure 'A' of Maharashtra Govt. So can u kindly make available this format in Word format or else I'll have to re-type the application.

[mpai]

Originally Posted by abhijeet

I am very much interested wrt 4(1)(d), and raised discussion in this matter in the forum. A On 27th I have to attend one hearing , experience of which I shall share with the members, after receiving their response.

Can we have an update on the hearing you attended on the the 27th please. In case you have posted this on a seperate thread, please let me know.

Thanx

Manoj

[abhijeet]

Originally Posted by mpai

Can we have an update on the hearing you attended on the the 27th please. In case you have posted this on a seperate thread, please let me know.



Manoj

I had received the report of hearing of the 1st appeal, in which I wanted to know the reason of some administrative/quasi-judicial decisions of the concerned PA: but the AA could not give any proper reply .Mostly informed that required information was not available in the DEpt, and while that statement was challenged during hearing, AA suggested for the inspection of the "relevant file". My previous experience of inspection of files in that Dept. was not at all satisfactory. They brought certain records which were kept in the files and specifically the "wanted" documents were missing. And reply was that these are all records. This time I reminded them to bring the file properly with relevant records. I am expecting the inspection date and do not know how to have the required records.

[jps50]

We have also filed similar application with Charity Commissioner's Office, Ahmedabad. reply is awaited.

[mpai]

Originally Posted by abhijeet

They brought certain records which were kept in the files and specifically the "wanted" documents were missing. And reply was that these are all records. This time I reminded them to bring the file properly with relevant records. I am expecting the inspection date and do not know how to have the required records.

Generally all documents in the file should be page numbered and continuous. I guess, if you check this, you should be able to point out the lapses.


If you have any doubt, you can also ask for inspection of the Inward Diary Register as well as the Despatch Register for the period of records being inspected.

Wishes

Manoj Pai

[abhijeet]

The AA had proposed inspection of files within 15 days.I would ask for inward diary registrsr & despatch registrar also, as suggested by you. But my previous experience of file inspection in this dept. was far from satisfactory. No file noting, no relevant papers were available, as expected.When asked , they replied that certain records were lying with Law Cell, which were not made available. I was assured another inspection, but it was denied afterwards. I could not do any thing as the assurance was verbal . Let us wait for the next inspection.
Now I received two conflicting "information" wrt two different applications by the same SPIO. Some records were available in that dept during 2002, but now they claimed that "records were not availablen in the file". My question is if certain records kept in some other place and the relevant file was provided for inspection without those records , what should be done( as wedid not have any docoments to prove that those records were received by them). But concerned records should have been there and they mentioned those in their earlier correspondence. Should I submit two copies of their conflicting remarks and ask the reason for it ?

[R K Garg]

Chndigarh administartion does not follow the proactive disclosures in the manner it is required under law.Even the names ,address and phone numbers ( office & Residence) have not been displayed at the enterence of their offices.
I may be guided as to what are the general suggestions made to Chandigarh Adminstartion for making improvements

R K Garg

[kushal]

Did you try downloading the Campaign document from rtiindia.info? If not, I suggest you make use of the document to further the cause you are aiming at.

[karira]

Originally Posted by R K Garg

Chndigarh administartion does not follow the proactive disclosures in the manner it is required under law.Even the names ,address and phone numbers ( office & Residence) have not been displayed at the enterence of their offices.
I may be guided as to what are the general suggestions made to Chandigarh Adminstartion for making improvements

R K Garg

That is exactly what this survey showed:

http://www.rtiindia.org/forum/2458-r...er-survey.html

[R K Garg]

The results of survey were published in Jan.2008.I think we need sustained efforts to make authorities relise the importance of Procative disclosures.Press should also participate in our compagin.A phone no.2740290 registered in the name of CPIO was actually picked u by a lady Under Secretary.Of course she was very polite and helping and took my message for the concerned CPIO and CPIO also responded.Though my purpose of calling of CPIO was fulfilled but I am not happy wasting time of Under Secretary for a job not meant for her.This just one example from the can of worms

R K Garg

[karira]

Members,

I made 3 applications under this campaign for disclosure under Sec 4 of the RTI Act. Another forum member from Hyderabad made 1 application.

Two of my applications were never replied to and are now under First Appeal.

In the third case, the reply received was totally irrelevant. Also under First Appeal.

The application of the other person from Hyderabad was replied to by attaching some printouts of a website. The reply is irrelevant & incomplete.

I have two questions (or doubts) :

1. Is it that the application drafted for this campaign not being understood by PIO's ?

OR

2. Are the PIO's choosing to simply delay the whole process of giving information about Sec 4 implementation by making the applicant go all the way till the Second Appeal ?

What are the experiences of any other members who made applications in their states/cities under this campaign ?

Need feedback from all those who applied under this campaign, to take stock of the situation and request Kushal to redesign if necessary.

[R K Garg]

RTI is a marvelous Act. It provides an opportunity to get and peep into all records but in some cases we have to go beyond RTI. Recently I received an order in RTI Case from Appellate Authority in which my appeal against CPIO was dismissed as the Appellate Authority did not find any infirmity in my appeal as CPIO had already supplied the available records.. I agree that various CPIOs are supplying the information available with them. As such the provisions of RTI Act has been followed but we have to go beyond RTI because it is the system which is not in order or not being followed as per rules .Merely by providing the documents on record does not absolves a Public Authority of its responsibility (there are other rules also) to work as a watch dog of the system. There is AG, DDO also who keep a check of the system. The practice of passing the bills without having all the requisite documents on record is facilitated by hesitance of officials to insist on action as per law. The role of DDOs and AG office is over shadowed once the matter is related to the high officials of the administration. The subject matter of this letter is to put the system in order and make the system transparent and working. The meetings of Senior Officers are held very frequently and there is always a case for up grading the system and there is always a effort to make it people friendly but the mute question always remains that these orders are not being followed. There is a need for change in the thinking .The public is not against the system but needs a system which is working for them. All such efforts will make available the opportunity for change in the thinking for a better and responsive administration. No doubt Chandigarh is the best. Let us make an effort to make it much better and put the system in order

R K Garg
Chandigarh