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This is a discussion on Records not Traceable within the Ask for RTI Query forums, part of the RTI Community Support category; I have received information from PIO that "Records are not traceable" is this is the justified answer, what should be done in such case....
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#2
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| Quote:
This is the extract of the departmental circulation I have received from the Ministry. You can see that under the above circular, you must approach for the First Appeal asking for:
__________________ |
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#3
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| Thats a very good information Kushal, Please make it part of the FAQ |
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#5
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| Kushal, Can you post a copy of the circular? |
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#6
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Quote:
All documents are public property. Action has to be taken against missing documents. In an appeal No. 49:APL:2006 dtd.31/8/2006 between B.H. Veeresha & Chief Engineer Bangalore Mahanagara Palike, Bangalore, the Karnataka State Information Commission had directed the Public Authorities to file a Police Complaint wherever public records were reported to have been lost. I am sorry I dont have a copy of this decision, but it should be availabe with the Karnataka SIC. Further the Central Information Commission, New Delhi has also ruled in several cases (Ms. Misha Singh v/s MEF; Mrs. Prem Vati v/s MCD etc) directing the Public Authority to file FIR with the Police for missing files, documents and cupboards. Manoj |
| The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to mpai For This Useful Post: | ||
esakky (10-28-2008), nk agarwal (10-30-2008) | ||
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#7
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I believe that is not a very good step. The action taken against the erring officer after inquiry should be the primary recourse. What results are achieved by filling FIR. There are millions of FIR pending in the police stations. It will give one excuse to the babus to file and FIR and deny the information. I wont be surprised if some one file another RTI to find out the number of FIR pending in police stations. The objective of RTI to make government transparent not shift blame or generate unproductive work. May be a penalty of digitizing the records in a given time period should be awarded to the CPIO with direction to govt to make available required fund. If a past mistake can ensure that the future mistakes are avoided, its a lesson well learned. |
| The Following User Says Thank You to maneesh For This Useful Post: | ||
esakky (10-28-2008) | ||
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#8
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Maybe you can try asking this question to the SIC of Karnataka and the CIC New Delhi, giving reference to their two decisions, I had referred to. |
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#9
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I too have an experience with Registrar of Societies of missing fulle 135 page letter+docs personally handed over and now when I asked for comments and action the same they replied it is NOT TRACEBLE.. Ofcourse, I am not in mood to leave that answer.. FOLLOW-UP till the END is what make these officials work. Rejimon CK, Dwarka, ND-77 |
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#10
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Manoj |
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#11
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135 pages is nothing. In my case, the Government lost 2 sets of documents containing 637 pages each ! Both sets (copies of each other) were bound, stitched and covered with plastic sheets. The subject matter was, supporting documents for getting refund. When I complained to the higher officer in writing, he also told me to file a FIR with the local police station. But the officer who made the two bunches "mysteriously disappear", requested me to resubmit the two sets. I obliged, on the condition that he goes to the photocopy shop himself and pays for the charges from his own pocket. |
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#12
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Pl. check |
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#13
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May I add a bit more to what Kushal has given ? In case the reply is that "the record under question has been destroyed", ask for copy of the " destruction certificate". This is not to be destroyed. every document ordered for destruction has to be destroyed by burning under the supervision of an Officer or a Board of Officers who has to render a certificate that "Following documents (has to give full details) were destroyed by nurning by me on . . . . . ." If someone says that a particular document has been destroyed, its particulars should be in the destruction certificate. If not the person responsible for its safe custody has committed an offence. |
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#14
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I agree with Colonel Even when a non classified documents or filed papers are destroyed an advance permission is sought from the concerned authority. Though BULK has some different provisions in various departments ...Like various offices categorically mention that ..."The Following records would be automatically be destroyed after 3 years" .. But thn again its under under supervision ...so let us 1st see that what is the procedure in the said dept for maintainning the files and documents...And what is the classification of the same Above that there is some difference in Lost, Destroyed and not traceable... For Lost and Not Traceable Mpai has suggested the right way ...For Destroyed the above post is vital Last edited by Abhinav Bohare; 09-03-2007 at 02:14 AM. Reason: add |
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#15
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In case First appeal is required here is a format for the same as Based on experience I would like to advise that never over state in First Appeal...Kindly find underneath a supportive format for the same. First Appellate Authority ____________________________ A. Contact details:
Signature of the Applicant…………… | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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#16
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The procedure for destruction of documents/files were in vogue since British time. Knowing the Indian habits, they had framed fool-proof procedures. Whatever may be the local procedure, take it from me that "as per the orders it will be accountable." No one can escape by simply stating that it is missing or lost or destroyed. Please donot accept such blank replies that it is destroyed. Probe further. You will defenitly get a NECK to catch/hang.. |
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#17
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Please mail your RTI application and reply received from PIO for any kind of further discussions(if any) regards |
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#18
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my appeal filed in this matter against Registrar of Socities, New delhi is for hearing at CIC on 15/4/08. CIC also issued notice them separately on the matter, why action should not be taken.
__________________ Rejimon CK Sector 22 Dwarka, ND-77 |
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#19
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Just out of curiosity and my inability to understand or comprehend the technicality of the language of the members use here.................... I will put it in a simple question answer form (Engineer ,,,,,,, so lingually handicapped )Q.What happens when some one says "record not traceable" A.We file one more RTI and wait for another 35 days to find out who is responsible for maintaining the document Q.how does that help me,i still do not have the information i am seeking? Please answer Q.Do i get some kind of compensation Q.does the guy responsible for my loss get fired or suspended or fined,if yes then what is the clause ? Q.So there is a loop hole in the system, rite? I can get away with any thing buy burning the required documents......what is the worst that can happen..a few days suspension ...a few thousand rupees fine.....sure i can afford that? (that is what a gov.t official can do ) Just a thought but do answer a few of my questions. |
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#20
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It would be batter if you post your application under RTI Act-2005 and reply of PIO on the web site.Even then I am posting one Decision Notice of CIC which clearly states that:- Head Note If however, it is found that information cannot be provided because the file remains untraced, we hold that it is the responsibility of the Public Authority concerned as custodian of the file to ensure their safe custody. For having failed to do so and thus having resulted in harassment and undue delay in response to appellant Shri Ram Prakash’s request for information, we accept the plea for compensation for detriment suffered u/s 19 (8) sub0section (b). In that case we direct that an amount of Rs. 3000/- (Rupees three thousand only) be paid to him by the Sum & JJ Wing of the DDA To issue in Hindi CENTRAL INFORMATION COMMISSION Appeal No.CIC/WB/A/2008/00216 dated 4.1.2008 Right to Information Act 2005 – Section 19 Appellant - Shri Ram Prakash Respondent - Municipal Corp. of Delhi (MCD) Slum & JJ Facts: By an application of 15.2.07, assigned ID No. 690, Shri Ram Prakash of Raghubir Nagar, New Delhi applied to Slum & JJ Dep’t. M.C.D. seeking the following information: 1. “What was the area of Shop No. D-2, when allotted. In lieu of which place it was allotted. Against which shop No. it was allotted and in whose name it was al |