Records not Traceable

[nile0611]

I have received information from PIO that "Records are not traceable" is this is the justified answer, what should be done in such case.

[kushal]

Intimate retention period in case information sought has been weeded out under Record Retention Schedule/Preservation of Records Rules. It would also be advisable to enclose copy of relevant rules or the extract of rules under which weeding of records has been done.

This is the extract of the departmental circulation I have received from the Ministry. You can see that under the above circular, you must approach for the First Appeal asking for:

1. Retention period of record.
2. Rule under which the record has been destroyed, if it is?
3. If the record is untraceable, who are the Officials responsible for not maintaining it.
4. Why the above details were not given to me while supplying the information by PIO.

[maneesh]

Thats a very good information Kushal, Please make it part of the FAQ

[muralivmohan]

good reply

[maneesh]

Kushal,
Can you post a copy of the circular?

[mpai]

Originally Posted by nile0611

I have received information from PIO that "Records are not traceable" is this is the justified answer, what should be done in such case.

All documents are public property. Action has to be taken against missing documents. In an appeal No. 49:APL:2006 dtd.31/8/2006 between B.H. Veeresha & Chief Engineer Bangalore Mahanagara Palike, Bangalore, the Karnataka State Information Commission had directed the Public Authorities to file a Police Complaint wherever public records were reported to have been lost. I am sorry I dont have a copy of this decision, but it should be availabe with the Karnataka SIC.

Further the Central Information Commission, New Delhi has also ruled in several cases (Ms. Misha Singh v/s MEF; Mrs. Prem Vati v/s MCD etc) directing the Public Authority to file FIR with the Police for missing files, documents and cupboards.

Manoj

[maneesh]

I believe that is not a very good step.
The action taken against the erring officer after inquiry should be the primary recourse.
What results are achieved by filling FIR. There are millions of FIR pending in the police stations.

It will give one excuse to the babus to file and FIR and deny the information.

I wont be surprised if some one file another RTI to find out the number of FIR pending in police stations.


The objective of RTI to make government transparent not shift blame or generate unproductive work.

May be a penalty of digitizing the records in a given time period should be awarded to the CPIO with direction to govt to make available required fund.

If a past mistake can ensure that the future mistakes are avoided, its a lesson well learned.

[mpai]

Originally Posted by maneesh

I believe that is not a very good step.

What results are achieved by filling FIR. There are millions of FIR pending in the police stations.

Maybe you can try asking this question to the SIC of Karnataka and the CIC New Delhi, giving reference to their two decisions, I had referred to.

[rejimonck]

I too have an experience with Registrar of Societies of missing fulle 135 page letter+docs personally handed over and now when I asked for comments and action the same they replied it is NOT TRACEBLE..
Ofcourse, I am not in mood to leave that answer.. FOLLOW-UP till the END is what make these officials work.
Rejimon CK, Dwarka, ND-77

[mpai]

Originally Posted by rejimonck

Ofcourse, I am not in mood to leave that answer.. FOLLOW-UP till the END is what make these officials work.
Rejimon CK, Dwarka, ND-77

Thats the spirit. Maybe the contents of post number 6 above should help you.

Manoj

[karira]

Originally Posted by rejimonck

I too have an experience with Registrar of Societies of missing fulle 135 page letter+docs personally handed over and now when I asked for comments and action the same they replied it is NOT TRACEBLE..
Ofcourse, I am not in mood to leave that answer.. FOLLOW-UP till the END is what make these officials work.
Rejimon CK, Dwarka, ND-77

Rejimon,

135 pages is nothing.
In my case, the Government lost 2 sets of documents containing 637 pages each !
Both sets (copies of each other) were bound, stitched and covered with plastic sheets.
The subject matter was, supporting documents for getting refund.
When I complained to the higher officer in writing, he also told me to file a FIR with the local police station.
But the officer who made the two bunches "mysteriously disappear", requested me to resubmit the two sets. I obliged, on the condition that he goes to the photocopy shop himself and pays for the charges from his own pocket.

[mpai]

Originally Posted by karira

But the officer who made the two bunches "mysteriously disappear", requested me to resubmit the two sets. I obliged, on the condition that he goes to the photocopy shop himself and pays for the charges from his own pocket.

Hope you did not allow him to take the photocopy bill with him, else he would have put up the bill with his office and claimed the reimbursement.

Pl. check

[colnrkurup]

May I add a bit more to what Kushal has given ? In case the reply is that "the record under question has been destroyed", ask for copy of the " destruction certificate". This is not to be destroyed. every document ordered for destruction has to be destroyed by burning under the supervision of an Officer or a Board of Officers who has to render a certificate that "Following documents (has to give full details) were destroyed by nurning by me on . . . . . ." If someone says that a particular document has been destroyed, its particulars should be in the destruction certificate. If not the person responsible for its safe custody has committed an offence.

[Abhinav Bohare]

I agree with Colonel

Even when a non classified documents or filed papers are destroyed an advance permission is sought from the concerned authority.

Though BULK has some different provisions in various departments ...Like various offices categorically mention that ..."The Following records would be automatically be destroyed after 3 years" ..

But thn again its under under supervision ...so let us 1st see that what is the procedure in the said dept for maintainning the files and documents...And what is the classification of the same

Above that there is some difference in Lost, Destroyed and not traceable...

For Lost and Not Traceable Mpai has suggested the right way ...For Destroyed the above post is vital

[Abhinav Bohare]

In case First appeal is required here is a format for the same as Based on experience I would like to advise that never over state in First Appeal...Kindly find underneath a supportive format for the same.




First Appellate Authority
____________________________
A. Contact details:

1. Name of the Applicant
2. Address, Tel. No.

B. Details about RTI request:

1. Particulars of the SPIO against whose order appeal is preferred	(a) Name
	(b) Address
2. Date of submission of application (Please attach a copy
3. Brief facts leading to appeal	(a) No response received within 30 days of submission of Form I
	(b) Aggrieved by the response received within the prescribed period (a copy of the order received be attached)
	Grounds for appeal _________________________________________________ _________________________________________________
4. Prayer or relief sought
5. Last date for filing the appeal
6. If appeal is being filed after 30 days, the reasons which prevented from filing appeal in time	__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________
7. Copies of documents relied upon by the applicant

Signature of the Applicant……………

[colnrkurup]

The procedure for destruction of documents/files were in vogue since British time. Knowing the Indian habits, they had framed fool-proof procedures. Whatever may be the local procedure, take it from me that "as per the orders it will be accountable." No one can escape by simply stating that it is missing or lost or destroyed. Please donot accept such blank replies that it is destroyed. Probe further. You will defenitly get a NECK to catch/hang..

[shakti]

Originally Posted by nile0611

I have received information from PIO that "Records are not traceable" is this is the justified answer, what should be done in such case.

Go for appeal and give another application to the PIO and request him to provide the names and designations of the employees and/or officers who were/are duty bond to keep the records and also ask that What kind of civil and/or criminal action/proceeding has been taken/initiated against the concerned persons.If no action is taken then the detailed reason for protecting the guilty.

Please mail your RTI application and reply received from PIO for any kind of further discussions(if any)

regards

[rejimonck]

my appeal filed in this matter against Registrar of Socities, New delhi is for hearing at CIC on 15/4/08.
CIC also issued notice them separately on the matter, why action should not be taken.

[Tejaswy]

Just out of curiosity and my inability to understand or comprehend the technicality of the language of the members use here....................


I will put it in a simple question answer form (Engineer ,,,,,,, so lingually handicapped )

Q.What happens when some one says "record not traceable"

A.We file one more RTI and wait for another 35 days to find out who is responsible for maintaining the document


Q.how does that help me,i still do not have the information i am seeking?


Please answer

Q.Do i get some kind of compensation

Q.does the guy responsible for my loss get fired or suspended or fined,if yes then what is the clause ?

Q.So there is a loop hole in the system, rite? I can get away with any thing buy burning the required documents......what is the worst that can happen..a few days suspension ...a few thousand rupees fine.....sure i can afford that?

(that is what a gov.t official can do )

Just a thought
but do answer a few of my questions.

[shakti]

It would be batter if you post your application under RTI Act-2005 and reply of PIO on the web site.Even then I am posting one Decision Notice of CIC which clearly states that:-

Head Note

If however, it is found that information cannot be provided because the file remains untraced, we hold that it is the responsibility of the Public Authority concerned as custodian of the file to ensure their safe custody. For having failed to do so and thus having resulted in harassment and undue delay in response to appellant Shri Ram Prakash’s request for information, we accept the plea for
compensation for detriment suffered u/s 19 (8) sub0section (b). In that case we direct that an amount of Rs. 3000/- (Rupees three thousand only) be paid to him by the Sum & JJ Wing of the DDA

To issue in Hindi
CENTRAL INFORMATION COMMISSION
Appeal No.CIC/WB/A/2008/00216 dated 4.1.2008
Right to Information Act 2005 – Section 19
Appellant - Shri Ram Prakash
Respondent - Municipal Corp. of Delhi (MCD) Slum & JJ
Facts:
By an application of 15.2.07, assigned ID No. 690, Shri Ram Prakash of
Raghubir Nagar, New Delhi applied to Slum & JJ Dep’t. M.C.D. seeking the
following information:
1. “What was the area of Shop No. D-2, when allotted. In lieu of which
place it was allotted. Against which shop No. it was allotted and in
whose name it was al