Question: Catch 22 situation......need help

[karira]

I applied to the PIO for some information about roads in my area.
I had to go 3 times to the PA to find out who is the PIO since there was no board in their premises and no one was willing to even accept the RTI Application till "bada saheb" had a "dekho" at it.

So, for good measure, I filed a total of 3 applications with the PIO:

- About Roads
- About Name board of PIO
- About implementation of Sec 4

No replies from PIO within 30 days.
First Appeal filed with the FAA after expiry of 30 days.
FAA ordered hearing and sent me notice.
Hearing was held.
Now 45 days are over after filing First Appeal and FAA has still not passed any order...spoken or written, and I have not received any information from PIO.

I have readied my Second Appeal to the CIC but the problem is that since the last few days, I am frequently seeing at least 4 to 5 orders daily of the CIC "remanding" the matter back to the FAA, EVEN THOUGH the applicant has exhausted the First Appeal. The words being used are:

Because the 1st appellate authority has not addressed
the question of appellant, which is of direct concern to his public authority and
because appellant has pleaded no ground for making a direct complaint to us u/s
18 (1) (e), the Commission has decided to remand this appeal to.......

How to draft the First Appeal so that CIC does not revert the matter back to the FAA once again.

I do not want to "complain" to CIC under Sec 18' since invariably CIC is sending the matter back asking applicant to exhaust the procedure under Sec 19(1) first.

[umapathi.s]

yes sir, your position is being experienced by others too and it is resulting in unnecessary harassment and wast of time to the information seeker. in my own case, i had approahed the CIC after exhausting the first remedy withn the public authrotiy who had refused to supply the report of the investigation on the lines of the CPIO. the cic gave the decision directing the CPIO to supply the report but added in the end that "in case the appellant is still dissatisified he has the liberty to approach the first appeallte Authority" and disposed the appeal. as expected the CPIO despite CIC clear direction didnot supply the investigation report and I was in dilema whether to approach the FAA and then compalin to CIC about non-complaince of commission direction. However I Felt it is only time consumeing since on the same matter the FAA had earlier refused to disclose the information. so, I have presently made a compalint regarding non-complaince of Commision direction and is pending for the alst three months. I feel the decision of the CIC should be speaking order and shall be binding on the public authorities. bunch of complaints to the Chief Informaion Commisioner of CIC may help to resolve the problems like this.I want to know what the other RTI friends suggest to get some soloution to problem like this.regards(umapathi.s)

[karira]

umapathi,

Sec 19(7) already makes it binding:

19.7.The decision of the Central Information Commission or State Information Commission, as the case may be, shall be binding.

Further, Sec 23:

23.
No court shall entertain any suit, application or other proceeding in respect of any order made under this Act and no such order shall be called in question otherwise than by way of an appeal under this Act.


But, as the last 2 years of the RTI Act have shown, who cares ?

[umapathi.s]

yes, but still one have a recourse to High court by writ petitions under Article 226 of the constitution.any decision of CIC being judicial in nature can be questioned if its decision is arbitary or unconstitutional or against the RTI provsion or involves violation of Fundamental Rights of a citizen.Alternatively I feel one can make a review petition to CIC to highlight the basci error of its decision.

[karira]

umapathi s,

Sir, a Writ Petition in High Court will cost a applicant a minimum of Rs 25,000.00. Then there is the question of additional time involved.
How many citizens of this country will have the motivation, time, energy and patience to go all the way ?

Even our hon'ble member of parliament gave up ! Please see:

Ill-Equipped SICs

Dr M V Mysura Reddy gave up and wrote to the PM. He is an MP and can write to the PM. What about a common citizen ?

In any case if a Writ in HC was a solution, then why have the RTI Act at all ? Why have a PIO, a AA and CIC/SIC ? A citizen will send a ordinary letter to a Government department for information and if there is no reply, he will simply file a Writ in the HC. What is the need for all this paraphernalia at the taxpayers expense ?

Regarding matter to go back to the CIC / SIC for review, please note that these are "frowned" upon by both the SIC and CIC. Please see:

http://www.rtiindia.org/forum/3182-r...ances-cic.html
Review By First Aa

The SIC's have been confidently throwing the RTI Act and its sections to the wind. The CIC has also started doing that. Please see:

http://www.rtiindia.org/forum/3659-c...sses-buck.html

[karira]

Is it possible, in my case, to file under both:

Second Appeal under Sec 19(3)
AND
Complaint under Sec 18(1)(c)

Is there any bar in stating both these simultaneously as the grounds for approaching the CIC ? Will this be enough for CIC not to "remand" the matter back to FAA ?

Please suggest.

[kushal]

1. Why don't you send a reminder to FAA and also to PIO?
2. Filing as both Second Appeal and Complaint is a good bet.

[jps50]

Before filing second appeal, the applicant is required to send a copy of second appeal to PIO & FAA. The applicant can request in copy to FAA to review FAA 's own instructions/decision earlier conveyed to CPIO in view of points of appeal stated to CIC /SIC, during pendency of appeal at CIC/SIC level. It can also be stated that applicant is not satisfied with PIO reply given after orders were issued by FAA. In such a situation CIC/SIC will not be able to decide to revert back to FAA. I have recently tried this and I am awaiting the outcome from CIC.

[karira]

Originally Posted by jps50

Before filing second appeal, the applicant is required to send a copy of second appeal to PIO & FAA. The applicant can request in copy to FAA to review FAA 's own instructions/decision earlier conveyed to CPIO in view of points of appeal stated to CIC /SIC, during pendency of appeal at CIC/SIC level. It can also be stated that applicant is not satisfied with PIO reply given after orders were issued by FAA. In such a situation CIC/SIC will not be able to decide to revert back to FAA. I have recently tried this and I am awaiting the outcome from CIC.

I am definitely serving the copy to the PIO and the AA and attaching the acknowledgement of the "serving" to my Second Appeal/Ciomplaint.

But in my case, there was no reply from the PIO and there were no orders from the FAA (written or spoken) even after hearing my first appeal, where I was present. In such a situation, what do I ask the AA or the PIO to reconsider or review ?

[slchowdhary]

Law of country can be only as good as its people. Keep on. Try all routes.

[nile0611]

But in my case, there was no reply from the PIO and there were no orders from the FAA (written or spoken) even after hearing my first appeal, where I was present. In such a situation, what do I ask the AA or the PIO to reconsider or review ?

You have 90 days to go for the second appeal. By that time file a fresh application under RTI seeking for the copies of the hearing. I hope u'll get the copy of the hearing by filing RTI application.

[taurus]

In this case if the FAA does not even make up its mind what order it should pass, it shows that the FAA wants to 'save' the PA. There is no point in waiting further. Second appeal to the CIC is the only recourse. That must be argued vigorously for imposing fine and compensation (if applicable). Additionally filing a complaint also for the same issue may only help to 'irritate' the CIC!!

[karira]

Originally Posted by taurus

In this case if the FAA does not even make up its mind what order it should pass, it shows that the FAA wants to 'save' the PA. There is no point in waiting further. Second appeal to the CIC is the only recourse. That must be argued vigorously for imposing fine and compensation (if applicable). Additionally filing a complaint also for the same issue may only help to 'irritate' the CIC!!

Do you think I can title it as:

Second Appeal under Sec 19(3) of the RTI Act
AND
Complaint under Sec 18(1)(c) of the RTI Act

I will give grounds under both these sections (apart from other sections) and also ask for prayer/relief under both the sections.

It will be something like Second Appeal cum Complaint.

Nile0611's idea is also good since there is enough time to file Second Appeal.

[taurus]

Nile0611's idea is good. But going by the nature of the PIO, I dont think he will reply this also! But no harm in trying simultaneously.
What is our aim? We want the CIC to give a firm decision. We dont want him to remit it back to the AA/PIO and drag the matter without finality. Will giving a title as
Second Appeal under Sec 19(3) of the RTI Act
AND
Complaint under Sec 18(1)(c) of the RTI Act
help achieve this objective? No. It will only give an opportunity to the CIC to treat as a complaint only and pass orders. If it is made as appeal only he may have to think twice before 'converting' it as complaint!

[karira]

Just imagine, going through all this, just to ensure that PA has a name board giving PIO details and implements Sec 4 !
Which is basically ensuring the PA to follow the RTI law in letter and spirit.

[karira]

Here is a related news report on the subject of my RTI application mentioned in this thread starter:

As reported in deccan.com on 27 April 2008:
City News

GHMC sleeps on bad roads

Hyderabad, April 26: Roads are in a shambles in different areas across the city like Mahendra Hills and East and West Marredpally, Laad Bazaar to the south and Ramanthapur to the east. The Water Board has paid the Secunderabad Cantonment Board and GHMC to repair the roads but nothing has been done.

Residents complain of problems caused by dust from the shattered roads besides damage to vehicles. Shops say business has been affected. There is no relief in sight. The Mahendra Hills road from the SCB checkpost to the SCB pumphouse and beyond looks like a village road. It leads to the houses of many VIPs, including the Congress MP for the area, Mr Sarvey Satyanarayana, and the Telugu Desam leader, Mr J. Ramakrishna, who is contesting the forthcoming SCB elections. “One can imagine the fate of other internal roads,” says Dr Shyam Sundar Goud.

Mr N.R. Mali of Variety Provision Stores said: “I have spent nearly Rs 800 on medical bills to overcome dust allergy.” The managements of Sri Satyanarayana Swamy Temple and Hills Way Bakery complained of a thick layer of dust settling everywhere. The sale of food items has come down drastically at the bakery. If that is the scene in the SCB area, the GHMC fares no better. Internal roads in East and West Marredpally and nearby Addagutta are totally damaged. Even the link road from St John’s Church to Railway Quarters has been dug up.

There was a ray of hope when residents saw tar-filled lorries in Marredpally and expected road repairs. But that was not to be. On the other side of the city, the roads present the same picture. The Laad Bazaar road is in bad shape and several narrow roads have been closed for traffic. The reason is that sewer trunk main lines are being laid. The Petla Burz road is riddled with potholes. In another corner of the city in Ramanthapur again the roads have been left without repair. The Water Board blamed the SCB and the GHMC. “We have paid Rs 60 lakh to SCB and Rs 6.4 crore to GHMC and roads and buildings department for restoration of roads,” said the Water Board director (projects), Mr Gowtham Reddy. “Why blame us when they are taking money for a job.”

============

The condition of ALL roads in my colony has been like this since January 2007 !

Apart from the present sitting Lok Sabha MP and the aspiring Secunderabad Cantonment Board (SCB) candidate, other VIP's staying in this colony include:

- The Speaker of the AP Legislative Assembly
- Many serving IAS officers
- Many serving State Government Officers
- Innumerable retired IAS/IPS officers
- One Retired High Court Judge
- The ex Chairman of APSRTC

(I am not boasting) In spite of all these VIP's, it is still necessary for a common citizen like me to file a RTI Application to the Secunderabad Cantonment Board on this subject. But no reply from PIO, AA holds hearing and does not even bother to issue any orders.

sagginyou,

As a aspiring civil services officer, with strong anti RTI views, what do you think ?
I am waiting for your "valuable" anti RTI comments.

[karira]

I am serving the "notice" for Second Appeal CUM Complaint on 29th or 30th April.

Just need one final suggestion from the members.

Apart from many other things, I have also "prayed" for :

1. Compensation of Rs. 50,000 from the Public Authority. (I have proof and justification to demand this)
2. Compensation of Rs 2,500 from FAA for holding the hearing, not issuing any orders and not following the DoPT instructions for FAA's

Can I also pray for the following:

"Instructions by the CIC under Sec 19(8)(a) to the Public Authority for allowing the applicant to use the "compensation" awarded from the FAA, for making a board giving details of the PIO and AA and putting it up at the main entrance of the Public Authority with the following legend at the bottom:
This board donated by a RTI applicant from proceeds of compensation awarded from the Appellate Authority"

This matter pertains to the list to be heard by CIC himself.
Do you think he will throw me out alongwith the above prayer ?