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  1. #9
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    Name:
    kantipuli
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    Default Re: Indian Air Force


    <HR style="COLOR: #e1e1e1; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #e1e1e1" SIZE=1>
    Thanks for the thread colnrkurup.

    I am herewith answering all your question right below. I think i have met my saviour and i humbly request you to help me with the rti as well as any help that i may require to take this matter legally.my answers are in BLUE.<!-- google_ad_section_start -->


    Though this issue should have been dealt under "Big Helpers", I shall clarify all your doubts and render correct advice lest you and the public in general think ill of the Defence Forces. Rest assured that the AF would not have punished you had they not found that you have committed the offence deliberately. If it is otherwise you will defenitely get full justice. Please clarify following:

    1. You said that you were considered as coward. Did you commit the offence when called for any operational duties ? In the case of absence without leave in peace time the aspect of cowardism does not come in .

    Am considered a coward in the civilian society due to my dishonorable discharge from AF and have lost my dignity of life.The offence was during the peace time due to unavoidable circumstances.

    2. Why do you bring in your caste ? There is no provision in Air Force Act permitting a SC person to absent without leave. The AF does not distinquish a person on the basis of his caste.

    I humbly agree with you that caste does not come here, but hypothetically speaking would i have been discriminated by the person while punishing for my offence.


    3.Did you overstayed your leave or absented or ran away from your unit without getting your leave sanctioned without taking permission from superiors ?

    i overstayed my sanctioned leave and did not absent myself or ran away from my unit.

    4.When did you go on leave previously ?

    three months

    5. Did you have leave at credit when you abstained ?

    yes, i had leave at credit and the same could have been regularised taking into view of my dad's ill health.(thats the reason i doubt that i may have discriminated)


    6. When did you get the information http://www.rtiindia.org/forum/images...lossarlink.gif that your father is in DIL ?

    only upon the information that my dad was ill did i apply for leave and came home.

    7. When did you report this to your superior officer and requested for leave ?

    immediately upon receiving information of my dad's illness

    8. What was his answer ?

    to follow due procedure and apply for my entitled leave.

    9. After being absent, were you declared a deserter and apprehended by Police or did you voluntary rejoin duty ? When you got instruction to rejoin, what did you do ?

    i voluntarily rejoined duty and i was not declared a deserted nor i was apprehended by police and neither did i get instruction to rejoin.(under AF Law a person is declared a deserter only when he is absent for more than 28 days without leave and the police will be asked to arrest the deserter.i didnt get any instructions to rejoin as i was serving the unit in peace time and there was no operational exercises at the time of my absence.

    10.What was your total period of absence without leave ?

    15 days

    11. What is the AF Act Section under which you were punished and what exactly was the punishment awarded ?

    AF Act 1950 and the punishment was "severe reprimand"

    12. Did you make any statement during summary of evidence ? If so what did you say ?

    my discharge with stigma was a administrative action for the offence and as such no summary of evidence was required as per AF Law 1950/1969.

    13. What was your defence ?

    I was punished in spite of providing documentary evidence of my dad being on Dangerously ill List(DIL)

    14. Did you appeal against your punishment ? If so on what ground

    yes, I asked for the punishment to be struck off on compassionate grounds.

    15. Did you deny the offence or admitted it ?

    i had to admit the offence though i had a valid reason for the offence.


    If you are not willing to answer the above, please do not proceed with this post in this forum as majority members of this forum may not be knowing the functioning of the defence forces and how serious your offence is when you abstained when ordered to perform your duties. If such an offence is taken lightly, it will affect the very existence of Armed Forces.

    I am person of integrity and as such i dont have a problem to answer any of the above questions. I dont have any problems with the functioning of the defence force and very well know the importance of the very existence of the Armed forces.I am just worried about the ways the Rules and Regulations were not followed and the authorities can manipulate their own laws and seek refuge behind the veil of national security because thats what the authorities will claim when my case goes for argument.

    where was the question of honor,trust,integrity for which the armed forces are well known for when three senior most army officers were found guilty for land scam and others officers involved in the recruitment scam, oil scam in siachen, mobile phones scam, Allegations of bribery and financial impropriety and the country has not yet forgotten the KetchUp Colonel, who will go to such low standards to win few gallentry medals and the list is endless.(one just need to search google for scams of the indian armed forces and the lists are endless)

    With due regards to our armed forces, the common man has a right to know what goes on behind the walls of our armed forces.

    I was just a teenager when i joined the indian air force(i was fascinated by the jaguars, migs, mirages, mi-17, mi-26 and il-76 flying over my house in bangalore).I was dishonorably discharged without following the procedures for discharge, i lost my father, i lost the will the live and am living on the goodwill of my brother and my widowed mother.

    i am receiving weird answers for my question on yahoo answers.

    For my question, one person went on to talk about islam and the greatness of allah and the pleasures of afterlife for those who put faith in islam and allah.

    i request this forum to help me take my case to its logical end.if the apex court thinks that my case is devoid of merit then so be it and i will humbly accept that i am not worthy to be a part of the indian armed forces and my discharge with stigma has already rendered me a worthless citizen.

    Please help me to get my service documents and give me a chance to put forth my arguments and let the law of the land decide.

    kind regards
    Manjunath





  2. #10
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    Name:
    Col NR Kurup (Retd)
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    Default Re: Indian Air Force


    Kantipuli,

    I shall defenitely help you if you come out with hard facts. Your above reply indicate following:
    1. On receipt of information of your father's DIL you had correctly projected the problem to your immediate superior who has correctly adviced you to follow the procedure and apply for your entitled leave (Do you agree that nothing wrong so far ?)
    2. Instead of applying for the leave, or in case applied, without waiting for the sanction and leave certificate you deserted service You were not declared deserter as you have voluntarily rejoined duty after 15 days
    3. On rejoining duty you were summarily tried as per AF Act and awarded the "Lowest Punishment possible viz., "SEVERE REPRIMAND" (Do you agree that nothing wrong so far ? Of cource you might be wanting to let you loose without any punishment and grant you the leave. If the unit resort to such practice to day, it will become a precedent and all future deserters will demand that they should also be let loose without punishment as being done to you. This is not possible under any cicumstances. But considering the cicumstances under which you were compelled to commit such an offence you were awarded the lowest possibe punishment. At least 14 days Rigerous imprisonment in military custody is the standard punishment in such cases. You must be at least a Corporal or Lance/Corporal
    4. This punishment by itself does not warrant any administrative action to get rid of you as an undesirable person. For every possibility this is likely to be your fourth punishment. In case you were sent home purely due to your above offence you will defenitely get justice and I shall help you to try to get the required information you need . Please confirm immediately that this is the first and only offence you have done.
    5. In every likelyhood this might be your fourth punishment for various offence including absenting without leave. As per Rules, the case of anyone incurring more than three "Red Ink Entry punishments" are to be examined to consdir the desirability of his retention in service. Some kind officers examine such cases only when one incur the FOURTH RED INK ENTRY. You are likely to be one of them. If your case fall under this category NOTHING CAN BE DONE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.
    Please cofirm the number of punishment involving red ink entries awarded to you, the dates of such awards and type of offences so that I can render correct advice
    Last edited by colnrkurup; 12-22-2009 at 04:11 PM.

  3. #11
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    kantipuli
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    Default Re: Indian Air Force


    I shall defenitely help you if you come out with hard facts. Your above reply indicate following:
    1. On receipt of information of your father's DIL you had correctly projected the problem to your immediate superior who has correctly adviced you to follow the procedure and apply for your entitled leave (Do you agree that nothing wrong so far ?)

    yes, i agree.

    2. Instead of applying for the leave, you deserted service You were not declared deserter as you have voluntarily rejoined duty after 15 days

    yes, i agree.

    3. On rejoining duty you were summarily tried as per AF Act and awarded the "Lowest Punishment possible viz., "SEVERE REPRIMAND" (Do you agree that nothing wrong so far ? Of cource you might be wanting to let you loose without any punishment and grant you the leave. If the unit resort to such practice to day, it will become a precedent and all future deserters will demand that they should also be let loose without punishment as being done to you. This is not possible under any cicumstances. But considering the cicumstances under which you were compelled to commit such an offence you were awarded the lowest possibe punishment. At least 14 days Rigerous imprisonment in military custody is the standard punishment in such cases. You must be at least a Corporal or Lance/Corporal

    i was a corporal and "SEVERE REPRIMAND'' is not the lowest but the highest administrative punishment. Your view that 14 days RI in military custody will be awarded to the equivalent of sepoys and lance naiks of army in airforce.

    4. This punishment by itself does not warrant any administrative action to get rid of you as an undesirable person. For every possibility this is likely to be your fourth punishment. In case you were sent home purely due to your above offence you will defenitely get justice and I shall help you to try to get the required information you need . Please confirm immediately that this is the first and only offence you have done.

    Yes, i agree. this punishment was my fourth but this punishment was a deciding factor and was awarded to me without taking into consideration the kind of domestic problems that i was undergoing.inspite of my repeated requests that my whole family are dependent on me and my father is retired, my requests were not considered and was discharged.

    5. In every likelyhood this might be your fourth punishment for various offence including absenting without leave. As per Rules, the case of anyone incurring more than three "Red Ink Entry punishments" are to be examined to consdir the desirability of his retention in service. Some kind officers examine such cases only when one incur the FOURTH RED INK ENTRY. You are likely to be one of them. If your case fall under this category NOTHING CAN BE DONE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.
    Please cofirm the number of punishment involving red ink entries awarded to you, the dates of such awards and type of offences so that I can render correct advice


    Yes, i was discharged under Air Force Law 15(2)g(ii)-Services no longer required-unsuitable for retention in the Air Force.

    But just because i am unsuitable in air force cannot render me ineligible for services in the other government/private sectors and thats against principle of natural justice.According to principle of natural justice one cannot judge their own cause viz.the air force accussed me of a offence and they themselves tried me, punished me and discharged me.atleast they should have conducted a court martial so that i could have been provided a defence lawyer well versed with the air force laws and a chance to defend myself.

    As an ex defence personnel, please advise me where do my future lie, did i commit a mistake by joining the armed forces very early in life. Please dont advise me to do some business coz there are various ways to earn money but do i have to live my whole life being a dishonorable person.should i put my eyes down everytime i see the men in uniform.according to the defence policy 2% of the entire armed forces can be given leave to attend to their domestic problems even at the time of war with the enemy so what was the idea behind my discharge.if this is to maintain discipline in the armed forces then why are the armed forces running acutely short of junior officers in their ranks.i personally know eight to ten guys who have joined the corporate sector instead of the armed forces(these guys were so much interested to join and had indeed cleared SSB, but seeing my plight they took their careers else where).

    I personally feel that all cases like my discharge was not to maintain discipline in the forces but to put a fear factor in the personnel and let them toe the line of their superiors, this is taking a toll on the lives of the men and their superiors whom they command like suicides, fragging, corruption, alcoholism, in subordination.

    All said and done, please help me to atleast get my case examined by the apex court and i will abide by the judgement.

  4. #12
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    430
    Name:
    Rajkumar yadav
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    Default Re: Indian Air Force



    col NR kurup
    Sir, It is correct that administrative action only done in cases of habitual offenders.Lets see how many red ink entries he has, If he does not have any than its a very serious case.

  5. #13
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    Col NR Kurup (Retd)
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    Default Re: Indian Air Force


    You were found indisciplined habitual offender with no mindset to correct yourself despite giving more than enough opportunities with ample kindness. . You were found guilty of offences four times and punished four times. Defence Forces just cannot afford to maintain such habitual delinquents at hard-earned public expenses. You should have been sent home immediately after you were punished third time for repeated offences. Your superiors were too sympathatic that they gave you one more chance. Still you refuce to improve. People like you have no place in Defence Forces. You may try in vain at any level or any extend Yours is a closed case. No one including me can help you nor willing to help a habitual offender who refuce to correct himself. Sorry! Please treat this discussion as closed.

  6. #14
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    Name:
    kantipuli
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    Default Re: Indian Air Force


    Thanks Colonel.

    On a personal note, what do i do now.i spent the rest of my life cursing myself.

    this is the mind set, the life that i have been leading since my discharge from AF.nobody, i repeat nobody willing to see the other side of the coin.

    ok.i am a habitual offender(its a different matter that my circumstances forced me to commit those offence)but dont i have a chance to present my case in front of the apex court which is the supreme authority and what if i am found innocent of all the charges.we are not living in a communist country ruled by the armed forces.

    what is the procedure to get my service records.please help me with this and i will consider this post as closed.

    i will come back to the same post after my case is decided by the supreme court.

  7. #15
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    Name:
    rajendra bakre
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    Default Re: Indian Air Force


    Colnrkurup,

    Kindly excuse for my intervention. I do not intend one bit to oppose any of your considered opinions. Rather I find them perfectly in place.

    However, I feel kantipuli should get his service record. That is the bare minimum he definitely deserves.

    Kantipuli,

    I would not make any comment on the merits of your case. I also cannot help you more than just suggesting the ways to get the information of your service records.

    It seems you are quite an intelligent person who understands the nuances of legal and administrative processes.

    As a first step I would suggest you file a correct RTI application, I repeat correct in all respects, requesting the specific documents you need.

    To ensure you are dead right in drafting the correct application I suggest you spend some time reading directory and guide sections of this portal. There you will find detailed instructions on filling correct application.

    Our senior member JPS50 has written very useful blogs on filing the correct application. Please read them carefully before drafting the applications.

    You may, If you so desire, upload your draft application for comments from experienced members.

  8. #16
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    Dinesh
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    Default Re: Indian Air Force


    Kantipulli,

    • Please prepare an RTI application asking for the certified copy of your records including leave.
    • Click here to get the list of CPIO for IAF. Address your application to one of them.
    • Enclose an Indian Postal Order for Rs. 10 in favor of Accounts Officer, Indian Air Force payable at the city of command you choose to file the application.
    • Dispatch the application through speed post/Regd post.
    • Wait for 30 days to get the answer.
    • In case you dont get the answer, file first appeal before first appellate given at same page.



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