Right to Rebuke/Reprimand

[sidmis]

Right to Rebuke allowed by CIC

Do the Appellate authority has any right to scold/reprimand/rebuke the appellant or info seeker apart from deciding on RTI issues?

Yes he can according to CIC.

The appellate authorities are given a virtual Carte Blanche on this by the CIC.

This funny aspect was decided by CIC Shri Habibullah in a decision last year.

According to him an appellate authority can admonish an appellant using polite language. But he was silent on the various circumstances under which this admonition can occur. It is left to the conscience of the AA to what extent he can go with his admonition.

Surprisingly his order does not dwell with any admonition to the PIOs as if PIOs are above admonitions.

Let's hope these official should not go beyond decency and start admonishing the info seekers in every go. That will create a sad story.

A part of the decision is given below.

DECISION NOTICE
The issues before us in this appeal were:
1) the disclosure of file noting in three files.
2) Misbehaviour of Appellate authority with appellant
The disclosure sought having been done; the cause of action now abates. On the question of misbehaviour we cannot consider the use of polite language of reprimand as any more than an admonition, which is well within the discretion of a presiding officer in a quasi-judicial proceeding. The appeal therefore stands disposed of.
Announced in the hearing. Notice of this decision be given free of cost to the parties.


http://cic.gov.in/CIC-Orders/Decision_03122007_01.pdf

[karira]

During my next First Appeal hearing, I will use "polite language" and my own brand of humour to get the "message" across !

I will also record the proceedings on my mobile phone so that CIC/SIC gets to hear it, if the matter goes to Second Appeal (just in case the PIO or AA think I am admonishing them).

[sidmis]

I will also record the proceedings on my mobile phone so that CIC/SIC gets to hear it, if the matter goes to Second Appeal (just in case the PIO or AA think I am admonishing them).

Is that allowed?

It's time to insist upon Video Recording of proceedings of all First Appeal Hearings and CIC/SIC hearings.

Sidharth

[colnrkurup]

The CIC is not a court of records. Quotting his earlier orders does not mean anything. Even the CIC himself may not abide by his previous orders. The CIC or anyone in the chain of command has any powers to rebuke or reprimand an appellant. He has no jurisdiction to step outside the powers vested in him under the RTI Act 2005. In case the CIC resort to it it is nothing but ' MISBEHAVIOUR' on his part. Its remedy is given in Section 14 of the Act.

[jps50]

We should have a test check of audio recording at CIC. In the appeal we can mention for permission to audio-record proceedings. When proceeding of parliament can be video recorded, why not CIC/FAA? Perhaps even supreme court may follow video recording.

[sagginyou]

My ever demanding friends..
There should be a right to recall of the officials..
Today one can find n number of persons challenging govt officers that under RTI they can take away their jobs...this thread also sounds in similar fashion..
I think RTI should be amended to include if more than 10 persons certify that AA or CIC is wrong then AA or CIC has to prove that they r not wrong...
It will add another feather in the RTI punches...
I think whole of the office complexes should be having CC cameras with live telecast on utube..
Later on it can be extended to the govt allotted houses as these r also public properties so naturally the public has a right to know....

[karira]

Originally Posted by sagginyou

I think whole of the office complexes should be having CC cameras with live telecast on utube..
Later on it can be extended to the govt allotted houses as these r also public properties so naturally the public has a right to know....

How will it serve any purpose ?

Although I am not a Public Authority as defined in the RTI Act 2005,
but am still willing for this.

As a budding Officer, are you ?

[colnrkurup]

This country has more than enough laws to face any crime. Certificates of 10 people can eaisly obtained paying @ Rs.50/- each and another 20 certificates from others certifying that they are false by paying @ Rs.100 each. So the suggestion does not work
The bureaucrates themselves being the virtual law-makers, they have been escaping from every effort to bridle them. To the goodluck of WE THE PEOPLE OF INDIA by a rare miracle, we got the RTI Act through which will look after the corrupt buureaucates and assist to catch the corrupt one. Our RTI Act does not need any amendments for the time-being except bringing the Information Commissions also accountable and bringing in a Central Agency to coordinate the activities of all the Commisions lest some of them behalve themselves without any control or accountability.
Honest government officials have nothing to worry; but the corrupt have
to face the law. In general I find only those who indulge in corupt practices are only getting gittery and oppose the RTI Act. So are the Thiefs, Murderers and Anti-national Activists will be too happy if we get rid of IPC, CrPC and other laws of the land. If the corrupt/ criminls get majority they can defenitely amend the laws of this country to acommodate their crimes. It is WE THE PEOPLE OF INDIA's concern to see that they do not get majority. RTI is one of the tools in our hand to expose all their corrupt and unlawful activities. Of cource it will not be to their liking. But sorry ! ! ! Can't Help.

[chanda_s]

Originally Posted by karira

How will it serve any purpose ?

Although I am not a Public Authority as defined in the RTI Act 2005,
but am still willing for this.

As a budding Officer, are you ?

i think you missed the wry sarcasm in the post!

[opsharma]

YES POST 6 IS A WRY SARCASTIC PARODY and timely enough,seeing the euphoria around. By all means enjoy your newly found Rights but dont forget self restraints,civility and above all Responsibilities - a concept very difficult to self impose in an anarchic democracy where unbridled frenzy is a general rule rather than an exception.

[sidmis]

Amidst the new found FREEDOM and EUPHORIA, the info seekers shall always remain at the receiving end.
Be it information(mis-information) from the PIO or reprimands/rebuke/Prosecutions from the FAA/CIC/SIC.

Inside the FAA's hearing chamber it's the same old story. First Appeallates never rebuke/reprimand the PIOs as if following an un-written law. The biradari remains intact.

It's the info seekers who have to bear the brunt and hear all the rebukes/reprimands etc. etc.
As if the FAA's are getting cheap thrills at the expense of info seeker. So let them enjoy it as long as the show lasts.

[colnrkurup]

No Sidhardh. It is the spend forces in the guise of CIC/SICs are creating the obstacle in the growth of the Act. How many instances of an IAS officer awarding punishment to a guilty you have come across ? let it be the District Collector or the Chief Secretary . An official who could never punish a guilty when he was young and hearty just cannot punish a guilty when he is a spent force, mature, God feaiing or fearing Godf Myself being in Army for more than 30 years knows it well. I could punish a man freely when I was young. When I was 52 I thought twice before awarding a punishment. That is the reason we keep the Army young and officers in my time made to retire at 52. After 52 he loose the fire in him. This is exactly the fate of RTI. The old men at the helm of affairs just cannot punish a guilty. The baic Indian habit is that one fear his superior either he can do some good to him or harm him. When the CIC/SICs can do none of it why whould the PIOs bother ? Unless the PIOs start gtting punishment when they are found guilty, please do not expect much. Again, so long as the spent forces are at the helm of affairs don't expect them to punish a guilty.

[opsharma]

Hi Siddharth,never realised you were complaining type -joshing really. I completely agree with you , as for as conduct of some of these officials is concerned it is deplorable at times.But they are on a learning curve on a new job, best management rule to handle this type of top echlon is to be offensive but with very civilised and polite language. Make them unsure,confused and doubtful ,and I can vouch battle generally gets won.
And mind you no AA dare get funny ,if you are competent and confident.

[karira]

Originally Posted by chanda_s

i think you missed the wry sarcasm in the post!

No, I did not.

sagginyou and myself, have been having running battles about RTI, but unfortunately (because both of us are afraid of being banned from rtiindia.org for ever) all those are by direct email. So, none of you can enjoy them.

sdimis, colnrkurup, opsharma,

You should not feel so shy in front of AA. If he does not haul up the PIO, please remind him "Sir, you have still not discussed item No. x, y, z, etc. of my "prayer/relief".....Please address those issues before the hearing is over, otherwise the First Appeal hearing will be incomplete and have no meaning. After all, you are performing a quasi-judicial function. I wish to draw your attention to DoPT circular for FAA's (hand him over a copy) and I request you to kindly follow those instructions......."

[sidmis]

I don't mind being typecasted in this forum .
But I am happy that some of the points raised by me are taken in good spirit.

And if the AAs are on a learning curve then We the people of India are also on the same curve. Any amount of Rebukes/Reprimands are not going to hasten it any further or do any good to the cause of RTI. That's the moot point of this discussion. I am competent enough to take care of Rebukes/reprimands/Threats/jokes as they come.

[slchowdhary]

I have enjoyed the exchanges. Good spirit. However, let me say we all are responsible for the mess. Pure kue me bhang pari hai. We have good and bad persons everywhere. Let us not single out CIC's. How about the aam janta and educated at that one? Why our team is so limited ? We, the people have to rise and halla bole. PIO's, aa's and cic's all will respect you.

[opsharma]

Thanks a lot gentlemen ,"that's the way I like it."

[karira]

Originally Posted by sidmis

Is that allowed?

It's time to insist upon Video Recording of proceedings of all First Appeal Hearings and CIC/SIC hearings.

Sidharth

Sidharth,

Please see Agenda Item 5, subsection i) in the CIC Minutes of Meeting held on 19 June 2007:


http://cic.gov.in/CIC-Minutes/Minutes19062007.pdf

[sidmis]

Sidharth,

Please see Agenda Item 5, subsection i) in the CIC Minutes of Meeting held on 19 June 2007:

http://cic.gov.in/CIC-Minutes/Minutes19062007.pdf

Karira,

Thanks for pointing that out.

Though CCTVs have a limited functionality, at least a begining has been made by CIC in right direction.

These CCTV cameras may record the time of start and finishing of the hearing.

Why only start and finishing? Why not entire proceedings?

I wonder whether the footage captured by CCTVs are in public domain or not?

Sidharth