RTI, nuisance, corruption and future

[princepr]

Dear members,
I am a PIO and would start this thread and present my point in a slightly different angle.

We in this forum are actively doing something strong to propagate the virtue the RTI act brought to us. Yes of course, without the act, public offices would not be this transparent. And WE the citizens of India are getting the real access to the offices. But who are the people in that WE? Only people below poverty lines? only people who are not educated? only farmers? only the labourers? only those who are not the working class? only the educated? only the bureaucrats? only the working class? only the law makers? only the politicians? NO. We means all cross sections of our people.

But unfortunately, most of the discussions in this forum assumes that WE means only the poor, uneducated farmers and labourers. The discussions try to propagate a dangerous idea: there are only two classes- the common poor man and the corrupt officers (or administrators). This perception is not going to save India. All of us must understand that all offices are not unfriendly to the public. All officers are not corrupt also. There are lot many sincere and hard working officers. I can tell you that at least 30% of the officers in an office will fall in this category. The rest 70% may be corrupt, insincere, lazy, irregular or (and) ineffective. And on the work and efforts of the first 30% that the Indian administrative sector rolls.

If we think that RTI is a means for the nonworking class to fight against the working class, can we ever imagine where will we end up. There are instances where some public nuisances started using the act as a weapon towards the offices.

I would say one instant. (i already mentioned it in another post). One person was regularly stealing water from my office premises to which the security personnel objected and reported. This is an educational institution and since he steals plenty of water in the night, the students face very serious scarcity of water in the day time and he was warned for doing that. Now he started making all sort of allegations against the security personnel. He demanded me to cut off a tree branch which he alleges that spoils his premises by droping leaves. I understood that there is no fact associated with the demands and rejected the same. The man began sending too many RTI questions to me. And the questions are actually not RTI questions. He frames some story related to the Institution first and ask questions about that. They are not questions. They are some defaming statements about me, my staff members, the security personnel, etc. Yesterday I furnished reply for 150 questions in a single application. (Almost 130 I rejected). He uses RTI as a weapon to say all sort of unparliamentary words to the office. I and my office have done only right things. I could have easily collect some money from him and spare him some water and could be corrupt. But since I did not do that and stood stern, I and my office are now paid the reward of defamation from this person!

You dear members can say that you have to hear the other man's version also. Sure you are. But you can believe me. This is 100 % true.

So what is the outcome. I am against corruption. I did some thing to uphold that. And I am suffering.

Please understand that by sending series of questions to the office, a person adds burden to that 30% of sincere officers. The remaining 70% will still wont care about that. They will not involve at all in preparing answers. Even if many of them are suspended, they wont care. They have strong political hold and money to resolve any issue, which I dont think our RTI can ever. So what is happening is, the very limited good man power in the public offices are now preparing RTI answers and do nothing for nation building. RTI act is well and good. But I am seriously afraid whether it in the present form will eventually do good or bad to this country. Transparency in office procedures may reduce corruption at first. After that, those people will find fool proof systematic method to do corruption. Through RTI act one will get all the documents. And you will never understand that corruption has taken place.

I think, if India has to progress, RTI has to be reformed. There must be some control over what can be asked under RTI . Also there must be some limit over the number of questions one can ask. There must be some restrictions that one RTI application can carry only questions related to one particular topic. If a citrizen asks some thing beyond the act, there must be some provisions to punish him. The PIOs and PAs also must get protection from defamation. If we are not doing so, we will be overloading the non-corrupt officers of this country and also will be demoralizing them. India will reach no where in such a situation. 70% is already gone. We must do some thing to protect the good being of the sincere 30%.

The problem of corruption cannot be resolved by RTI , I feel. If you prove that there is corruption, How many will be getting punished in this country? People makes crores of money as bribes, other deals etc. Are they all punished? The social system of dealing these kind of people has to be changed. There are enough laws and acts. 90% of them is not implemented here. If corrupt persons get model punishment, then only corruption can be stopped. See the example of Gulf countries. Otherwise we can continue our fruitless efforts of fighting corruption.

Sorry, if I hurt some of you. I would welcome a serious discussion among our members. Please dont be biased blindly and tell that anything sent to an office under the subject title RTI is truly RTI .

[mahekovoor]

well,i have nothing to comment with regards to 70%/30% theory.

i feel,corruption in our country till eighties were confined to limited areas like,RTOs,Registration dept,customs,excise and police etc.

However at present,i donot think there is a single department in our country,whether it is courts,defence,sch

ools,universities and so on...not free from the clutches of corruption.

earlier most of these corruptions were of meagure amounts and many were at lower levels and whoever took some bribes took it with an act of guilt atleast,whereas nowadays these corrupts are more at higher levels and whoever taking taking bribes feel like she or he should have demanded more than what he/she got.

Well,it is true that even following existing rules are enough to solve many of the problems. But when many of the law enforcers are breaking the rules.

like any other "weapons" RTI Act could be also used for cheap publicity and revenge at times. Only 5 years has passed since its enactment,comparing the good things emerged out of the usage of the rti ,i feel any misuse of the rti act is negligible.

If only all the authorities publish all the informations like "Orders,Instructions and guidelines" concerning them and make them easily available,there will be large reduction in rti applications from public and thus time and money spent on replying rti could be reduced/eliminated.

If we look into majority of rti applications,one can see that,most of them relates to basic amneties like "isuue of ration card,voters identity card,building sanction,pf balance,telephone bills etc.." Even after 63 years of independence,is it not a pity that majority of us should file an rti application and wait35\65\90\180 and sometime infinity days for such basic documents/details? As such any misuse of the rti act if any should be tolerated by the authorities for their "tortures" of the past.

[sivak64]

[quote=princepr;109803]Dear members,
I am a PIO and would start this thread and present my point in a slightly different angle.

[princepr]

Nice Mr. Mahekovoor. Thanks for taking part in the discussion. Your observations on the history of the levels of corruption is absolutely right. Earlier it was felt illegal. Now it is felt to be 'legal'. And sure, earlier it was in hundreds of rupees, now it is in crores. Earlier there were only a few corrupt, now there are much more. If we think over the reasons for this pathetic increase, there are many.

1. There is no transparency in the office
2. There is not much fool proof method to catch and prove corruption.
3. The corrupt is not punished in many cases. Even at all they are punished, the punishment is not proportionate to the degree of corruption.
4. Many law makers and politicians are in coccus with the corrupt officers. They act as the godfathers to save the corrupt.
5. Because of certain unhealthy trade union, service union mechanisms, it is very difficult for a non-corrupt officer to survive in the midst of all corrupt others. He will be either transferred or sidelined, thereby questioning his morale.

There are many more such reasons. It is true that RTI act will help in bringing transparency to the offices at least. That is really good also. My point is that RTI alone cannot do miracles. Our administration must change their minds in support of the non-corrupt.

Also,instead of blaming all officers as corrupt, our common public should understand that there are non-corrupt officers also. When we beat a crowd, we must make sure that only the criminals are beaten. If innocents are beaten, the nation building will be affected.

Yes it is sure that the misuse of RTI must be neglected when the use is considered. Any thing can be used for the good and the bad. My point is if somebody misuses the act, there must be provisions for penalizing the applicant too. But, of course the term 'misuse' also must be defined in the act- other wise our tricky PIOs will find every RTI questions a misuse. I will site the example of the Consumer protection act. There is provison of penalising the fake complainant. So people who really has consumer complaints file a complaint . With regard to RTI , let the applicant be granted any information relevant or irrelevant to him. That is his right. But he must be banned from sending defamation statements, mere allegations, unparliamentary statements, personal humiliation statements to an office under the shadow of the RTI act.

[princepr]

Dear sivak64,
your reply in the board is not visible. Please look into it

[kushal]

Thread upgraded to 'RTI THINK BOX'

[ramesh chandra]

Sir I agree that the RTI ACT is being used by some mischievous people to settle their personal scores, just as in your case. But a simple threat to lodge a police complaint for stealing water may dissuade him. As regards the effectiveness of RTI Act is tremendous. I am also a government employee and I am of the view that majority of decisions taken by officers with regard to government orders are influenced either by their political bosses or their own selfishness. The government of the day does not like to be questioned about their decisions. Every act is likely to be misused by some people, but its effectiveness far outweighs its misuse. For improving the work-culture in our offices I am of the view that we should stick to our's own job responsibilities. Any work beyond our limits should be purely on voluntary basis and in an informal capacity. Moreover we should have the courage to say NO to our superiors for their relentlessness.

[snkmoorthy]

dear princepr, i agree with every single word you have stated; RTI act has become a convenient tool for mischief mongers; from my own experience as a PIO , i can give hundred examples of such frivolous petitions under RTI . however, its benefits cannot be belittled; for the common man who had no weapon of any sort to fight the well entrenched govt office, now he has got a tiny pin with which he can prick them and perhaps goad them into action; let us [govt officers]not hold a grudge against the common man for possessing this weapon. a peculiarity of law, any law is that its misuse begins well before genuine benefits accrue to the public; take for example, the law against domestic violence against women; now many women are filing or threatening to file false petitions against men just out of spite or vengeance. this problem will always be there. no point in worrying about it.

[princepr]

Originally Posted by ramesh chandra

Sir I agree that the RTI ACT is being used by some mischievous people to settle their personal scores, just as in your case. But a simple threat to lodge a police complaint for stealing water may dissuade him. As regards the effectiveness of RTI Act is tremendous. I am also a government employee and I am of the view that majority of decisions taken by officers with regard to government orders are influenced either by their political bosses or their own selfishness. The government of the day does not like to be questioned about their decisions. Every act is likely to be misused by some people, but its effectiveness far outweighs its misuse. For improving the work-culture in our offices I am of the view that we should stick to our's own job responsibilities. Any work beyond our limits should be purely on voluntary basis and in an informal capacity. Moreover we should have the courage to say NO to our superiors for their relentlessness.

Nice thinking Mr. Ramesh. We are all here supporting the act. And the merits of the act cannot be considered less since somebody misuses it. As you said, superior officers may be biased to politics and so on. That is true. The need of the hour is we should have a set of non-corrupt impartial officers. My point is the misuse of RTI some how demoralises such officers for which India will have to pay in future. While upholding all the good things the act gives to a citizen, a citizen must be responsible too. There must be some provisons in the act to make him ask responsible queries under RTI rather than flooding and embarassing the PIOs and others in public office. The act is now 5 years old. It is not a small term. Think India is only 63 years old. We must be matured enough in the implementation of the act.

[princepr]

Originally Posted by snkmoorthy

dear princepr, i agree with every single word you have stated; RTI act has become a convenient tool for mischief mongers; from my own experience as a PIO , i can give hundred examples of such frivolous petitions under RTI . however, its benefits cannot be belittled; for the common man who had no weapon of any sort to fight the well entrenched govt office, now he has got a tiny pin with which he can prick them and perhaps goad them into action; let us [govt officers]not hold a grudge against the common man for possessing this weapon. a peculiarity of law, any law is that its misuse begins well before genuine benefits accrue to the public; take for example, the law against domestic violence against women; now many women are filing or threatening to file false petitions against men just out of spite or vengeance. this problem will always be there. no point in worrying about it.

Dear Mr.Snkmoorthy, Thank you very much. We as Govt. officers are public servants. All of us must remember that. The action of a few arrogant and irresponsible officers have made the face of the public service an ugly one. Those who have gone to a govt. office at least once will never say good things about those offices merely due to these insincere ineffective and corrupt officers. But, those doing genuine work in the offices never come front. Their efforts and hard work go unnoticed. They only do all the works in the offices. What I wanted to point out is that if unnecessary and unhealthy series of RTI questions are put into an office, it is these sincere officers suffer. The others would not even mind them. So if something is not done to stream line the art of putting RTI questions, I am afraid, a time will come when people will not take RTI questions seriously. And even the commissioner offices will be flooded with complaints. And the result will be that the genuine citizen who seeks a genuine information will get the same only after a long time. Information delayed means it is no longer an information in many cases.