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  1. #1
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    manoj k. kamra
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    Default Excessive fees estimate given by PIO and upheld by AA --without giving breakup of cost


    Dear list,

    This is my first message in this portal. I have been seeking help on how to deal with in a situation when PIO gives abstract figure of 6852/- (for a mere 150 pages of information) -----without giving pointwise breakup of cost . Interestingly,AA uphelds it in first appeal as estimate given by PIO have been well within 30 days.So AA directs to deposit the fees and then come for first appeal.

    Both PIO,AA know well that in SIC/ Rajasthan , it will take at least 5-10 hearings spreadover a year for releasing decision. Then I will have to file complaint for compliance of SIC decision for it . It will take another one year. In the meanwhile, AA will be retired and the scam will be revealed well after his retirement.

    Is there technique to compel them(PIO,AA) by SIC,AG(appropriate govt----ironically,AG have no website of his own despite repeated reminders to him,CM).

    So this is very interesting technique developed by AA (having nothing at his stake while suppressing his scam)-----for openly flouting RTI act in the light of no initiative from AG/SIC.Please suggest how to deal with.


    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails -phed-ratangarh-fees-estimate-6852-rs-without  


  2. #2
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    C J Karira
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    Default Re: Excessive fees estimate given by PIO and upheld by AA --without giving breakup of cost


    What were the grounds of your First Appeal and did you attend the hearing personally ?

    One way would be to file a Complaint to the SIC under Sec 18(1)(d) of the RTI Act and follow it upersonally at the SIC. Maybe they have a faster procedure for complaints.
    @cjkarira

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Excessive fees estimate given by PIO and upheld by AA --without giving breakup of cost


    hello and welcome
    on RTI India - Complete Online Community Portal for Right to Information plz be regular on this portal in fight of true freedom
    first u plz upload u r application
    -----------------------------------------------
    साक्ष्य पर कुछ गीद्ड़ो के एक शेर फ़िर मारा गया
    गण्तंत्र के इस तंत्र पर कुछ गुनगुनाइए
    या हाथ मे लेकर क़लम अब साथ आइए

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Excessive fees estimate given by PIO and upheld by AA --without giving breakup of cost



    Dear Sh.Karira ji,

    Thanks for your reply asking for few points not mentioned in the message. Although I mentioned all limitations of non-existance of RTI rules in Rajasthan like no provision of calling appellents for personal hearing , no provision to register complaint without first appeal (copied from CIC by our SIC) , no differentiation of various types of complaints in SIC as secretary to IC deals with complaints , complaints are considered inferior to second appeals in SIC etc.etc.

    Despite these limitations, is there any way to crack their excessive fees estimate. In response to your Pointwise reply, I have again explained limitations.

    (1)What were the grounds of your First Appeal and did you attend the hearing personally -----copy of my first appeal attached with this message and AA never conducted hearing to attend personally and he merely directed to deposit the amount at first. DoPT circular of NO.1/3/2008-IR
    Government of India dt 25-4-2008 gives in details first appeal procedure meant especially for AA for conducting first appeal. But this is not applicable in SIC as nodel office does not have its website of its own showing RTI rules.

    (2)One way would be to file a Complaint to the SIC under Sec 18(1)(d) of the RTI Act and follow it upersonally at the SIC-------Our SIC has no provision of registering complaint directly (without first appeals). After multiple hearings , SIC will deliver its order.Then again separate complaint has to be registered at SIC for compliance of SIC order on complaint. Such vicious cycle goes on and by April 2011, IC will retire.

    Sh.Karira ji, Kindly suggest in the light of these limitations --- a way to extract information.
    Last edited by manoj kamra; 02-02-2010 at 12:06 AM.

  5. #5
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    C J Karira
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    Default Re: Excessive fees estimate given by PIO and upheld by AA --without giving breakup of cost


    Manoj,

    No SIC in India or the CIc can function without Rules.
    The RTI rules and Fees as well as the Appeal procedure to be followed has not only to be notified but also Gazetted !


    Rajasthan also has these Rules. These are available in the Guide section: Rajasthan RTI Rules - RTI Guide

    Please carefully read them, specially Item No. 7.

    This will answer some of your queries.

    Specifically:

    1. RTI Act has Sec 18 and Sec 19. If there was no difference between them, why did the Parliament waste your and my time in incorporating Sec 18 in the RTI Act ?
    Please read both the sections carefully several times and list down the salient differences. You will realise that both those sections are different.
    Many other SIC's also do not hear Complaints under Sec 18 and ask the appellant to first exhaust Sec 19(1) before approaching the commission. This is incorrect.
    Please read the Allahabad High Court judgment regarding Sec 18. It is available on our sister website home - RTI India: The Complete Information and Resourse Regarding Right to Information of India (since that is hosted on a separate server it requires a separate registration). That dwells extensively on Sec 18 and differentiates it from Sec 19.
    There is also a Delhi High Court order (related to penalty/disciplinary action against FAA of LIC Chennai) - also available on home - RTI India: The Complete Information and Resourse Regarding Right to Information of India - which also dwells on Sec 18 and 19 and goes on to say that either they can be separate (either/or) or can even be combined - that is you can file a "Second Appeal cum Complaint".
    Please see: http://www.rtiindia.org/forum/9145-a...r-officer.html

    Read the above carefully and then go back to the Rajasthan SIC and tell them that if they do not hear your Complaint made under Sec 18, directly, they are violating HC orders and doing so at their own peril !

    2. The Secretary (or any other officer) of the Commission has no such powers to hear Complaints. That power is only vested in the Information Commissioner.
    Read Sec 18 carefully (Right to Information Act 2005), it only talks about the SIC and CIC, where does it talk about the Secretary having such powers ? The term SIC and CIC are defined in Sec 2(b), (d), (k), (l).

    Check the Rajasthan SIC website (welcome to Rajasthan Information Commission) it has a Sec 4(1)(b) disclosure which does not open. Go to SIC and ask them for the Sec 4(1)(b) disclosure. Check the sec 4(1)(b)(ii) - powers and duties of the officers of the public authority. Do they mention anywhere that the Secretary has the power to hear Complaints under Sec 18 ?

    Also see: http://ric.rajasthan.gov.in/301001.pdf
    It is in Hindi so I cannot read very fast. But it must be copied from the CIC (Management) Regulations 2007 - which is in English. Do they say anywhere that the Complaint can be decided by the Secretary ?
    These will come in useful to you in various other ways also - so please read them several times.

    After you complete this whole study/exercise, you will be in a better and confident position to tackle such illegal activities and procedures by SIC.
    Last edited by karira; 02-02-2010 at 02:54 PM.
    @cjkarira



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