can a group of nine people together ask for an information in a common RTI application from a PIO signing all in one application to prove the majority

[paawan]

Hi,
can a group of nine people together ask for an information in a common RTI application from a PIO signing all in one application to prove the majority interested in the same information? As to individual the same PIO due to maladministration gives the reply that the information is not with him and hence the application is filed or he directs to his subbordinate who gives reply as per his fancy and whims.
with warm regards

[DineshK]

I find this old post with a burning question which has not been answered. Will the learned members please answer the query ?

[jiwateshwar]

I'm not a learned member; still learning, however, I shall have a go at it.
Yes the application can have multiple applicants, but in the end it depends on what purpose one has in mind. Following are some scenarios.

1. Third Party Considerations: In one of my applications I needed information held by a government agency regarding a third party. In this case a joint application was made by me and the third party with the third party approving delivery of information to me and authorizing me to make correspondence on his behalf regarding the same application.

2. Public Interest: Information denied under the ss 8 and 9 can only be made available if larger public interest is proved. However this can not be done by increasing the number of applicants. One has to prove it to the CPIO/FAA/CIC/SIC as to how the sought information concerns or contributes to the society. In only a very few cases, the number of applicants may prove this.

In case the sole purpose of you application is to force the CPIO into submission, then a better approach would to file 9 individual applications. Which leads to 9 individual first appeals, and finally 9 individual second appeals. The effect can be seen in numbers:-
Case one: One application, multiple applicants. Maximum possible punishment = Rs25,000 x 1 =Rs. 25,000
Case two: Nine applications, nine applicants. Maximum possible punishment = Rs25,000 x 9 =Rs. 2,25,000

Now that amount is sure to scare any CPIO. Thus a sure shot compliance. I wouldn't be surprised if he personally delivers the sought information at your door-step.

[DineshK]

So you mean that filing 9 applications instead of application signed by 9 people is much better ? You may have to pay Rs. 80 (+postage) extra, but that will put more pressure on any CPIO/PIO.

OK. But the question is

1. Can an application be signed by nine people jointly ?

2. If yes, then whom CPIO will reply ? Will he send reply to each one of them ?

3. Does CPIO has right to reject such application ?

[The Great]

I think PIO will reject the application, as multiple applicant in a single application is no where in the Act.

[mpai]

Originally Posted by DineshK

1. Can an application be signed by nine people jointly ?

2. If yes, then whom CPIO will reply ? Will he send reply to each one of them ?

3. Does CPIO has right to reject such application ?

Can nine people fill one form for reservation of a railway ticket? Can nine separate account holders sign on just one check? Can nine citizens cast their votes in one go?

No way. The Manual of Office Procedure, besides several other Govt. regulations discourage such joint applications. The PIO can reject it on this ground alone. If the PIO is good natured, he can reply to the first applicant alone. However, he is at his liberty to ignore the application as well. On the darker side, he can even forward the application to the DOP&T with a request, that they issue orders / guidelines for rejection of such RTI Applications. Going by the recent activities by the DOP&T, they would surely oblige and issue orders immediately.

I would recommend that if the nine people indeed would like to file a joint application, they should attach their respective application fee (9x10) with the application.

At the same time, I do not see any public interest involved in such cases. Why do you want to play with fire? Its stupidity and also a waste of time. Already such experiments and antics by most applicants and NGOs has caused considerable damage and disrepute to this wonderful act from our country.

May better sense prevail.

Manoj

[jiwateshwar]

I wonder if my post required such a heated response. Anywayz getting back to the topic,
I have made joint applications before and achieved results for same. So far these have been made in states of Punjab, Haryana, Chandigarh and Kerala. None of the applications was rejected and information was provided within time limits stipulated under ss7(1).

Originally Posted by DineshK View Post

1. Can an application be signed by nine people jointly ?

2. If yes, then whom CPIO will reply ? Will he send reply to each one of them ?

3. Does CPIO has right to reject such application ?

A1. Yes application can be signed by nine people jointly.
A2. The application shall contain address of only the first applicant. Also the body of the application must clearly state that all information is to be directly delivered to the First Applicant and that the first applicant has been authorized by rest of the co-applicants to receive information and make correspondence in regards to the application on their behalf.
A3. I'm not to sure about this, but as far as my personal experience goes, they have not rejected my applications thus far. Joint applications have to be made at various levels while dealing in government matters. Thus I dont see any reason as to why such a Joint Application can not be made for RTI. Even our Civil Courts admit joint applications.

By the way, cheques to accounts with multiple account holders can be signed by more than one person. It just depends on what account you have and who you are banking with.

Also, railway ticket reservation form and ballot paper are not applications!

[mpai]

Originally Posted by jiwateshwar

A3. I'm not to sure about this, but as far as my personal experience goes, they have not rejected my applications thus far. Joint applications have to be made at various levels while dealing in government matters. Thus I dont see any reason as to why such a Joint Application can not be made for RTI. Even our Civil Courts admit joint applications.

Yes, courts admit joint applications, but then they also allow you to have multiple respondents as well. I can give you ten thousand cases where such joint applications can be allowed. But thats not the issue here. Section 6 of the RTI Act clearly states "individual" and "concerned Public Authority". The absence of the letter "s" suffix answers the question involved.

There are several Govt. Orders which clearly state that Joint Applications / Representations should be ignored.

If the CPIOs have responded to your joint RTI Applications then they have gravely erred. Were anybody to carry out an RTI Audit under Section 4 and raise objection on this ground the Public authority would be compelled to take action against him.

If you have made "Joint applications have to be made at various levels while dealing in government matters" and if its related to service matters, you and all the signatories are liable for disciplinary action under CCS(CCA) Rules.

To cut a long story short, such experiments by RTI Applicants and Activists cause more harm to the RTI Act, which is under stringent review by the Sub-committee for amendments of the RTI Act. I fear, this would only do more harm than any good to the RTI Act. The Senior Officers who are not happy with the RTI Act, would be only too pleased to allow more restrictions in the RTI Act. There have been many changes in the recent
DoP&T Orders. Note the order issued in February this year stated that RTI applications without application fee should be ignored. While another order issued last month choose to modify the contents of Section 6(3) in cases of any Central Govt. PA receiving applications, where the information was available with the State Govt. and so on.

We cannot expect the likes of Anna Hazare & C/o to go on hunger fast, who currently are badly shaken by such monkey antics by RTI Applicants seeking their "10 seconds of fame" with mischievous and frivolous RTI Applications. The CIC has also come down harshly on certain such RTI Appellants / Complainants.

I would humbly recommend that you use the KISS Factor - Keep It Simple and Sweet.

Manoj

[jiwateshwar]

Impressive reply and a lengthy one indeed. Do answer a few of my queries:
1. The tone of delivery in the above reply and the one before some how reflects your view/perception that I'm one of those "RTI Applicants seeking their 10 seconds of fame with mischievous and frivolous RTI Applications". I assume you have some grounds for making such a mischievous and frivolous accusation or is it simply your 10 seconds of fame?.

2. You say that the act is up for review and joint applications might make them change the act. Great! What change do you exactly have in mind? Are you afraid that they might explicitly prohibit joint applications? Well what do you loose in that case? You are not exercising that option anyways.

3. Needn't say more than this, see it for yourself. http://cic.gov.in/CIC-Orders/Decision_10102007_06.pdf

Anywayz, this reply was put up to cater an "attempted answer" to the question put up initially. No hostile comments shall be replied to hereafter as I intend to KISS it.

[mpai]

Originally Posted by jiwateshwar

Impressive reply and a lengthy one indeed. Do answer a few of my queries:

1. The tone of delivery in the above reply and the one before some how reflects your view/perception that I'm one of those "RTI Applicants seeking their 10 seconds of fame with mischievous and frivolous RTI Applications". I assume you have some grounds for making such a mischievous and frivolous accusation or is it simply your 10 seconds of fame?.

2. You say that the act is up for review and joint applications might make them change the act. Great! What change do you exactly have in mind? Are you afraid that they might explicitly prohibit joint applications? Well what do you loose in that case? You are not exercising that option anyways.

3. Needn't say more than this, see it for yourself. http://cic.gov.in/CIC-Orders/Decision_10102007_06.pdf

Anywayz, this reply was put up to cater an "attempted answer" to the question put up initially. No hostile comments shall be replied to hereafter as I intend to KISS it.

Though I am no PIO, were I one, I would not provide any information to the above as they are all "queries" as stated by you. "queries" do not constitute as information. However, in the larger interest, here are goes:-

Yes, you are, like all 24 year olds, do seek your "10 seconds of fame".

Yes, the changes in the act are indeed up for review. Some of the files were personally inspected just last week. I also have the copy of the Government Orders which clearly state that joint applications or representations should be discouraged.

The decision under reference has noting to do with the subject in the thread.

If you wish to flame one, go ahead. I dont have the time to respond.

Manoj

[ganpat1956]

Shri Manoj Pai, who is a very senior and much experienced RTI Activist, has given answer to the query by explaining the present position of law on such matters. The thread is closed for further discussions.