Is penalty on erring PIOs MANDATORY?

[vijendra singh]

If PIO denied to supply the demanded information on one pretext or other ;&CIC after 7 months orders the PIO to supply the info to the innocent citizen, is it mandatory then for CIC to impose penalty on erring PIO ? Or is it simply at the will of CIC ? What is the clear rule of penalties .Today it is being observed that CIC has not been penalising even 1 % of erring PIOs. Appointing authority i.e. President must appraise the PERFORMANCE of the CIC .regularly.

[DineshK]

You have raised a very good issue Virender ji. I have nominated this post.

[saibaba]

I think it should be mandatory ansd scaled one also. proportionate penalty must be imposed on erring PIO. All this will depend on case to case basis.

[S.K.GUPTA]

[jps50]

U/s 20 the act has used the word '....IT SHALL IMPOSE...' SHALL word makes it mandaroty for cic or sic to invariably impose penalty. Even for disciplinary action, SHALL word has been used. The appellant should invariably include these penalties in prayer. If cic/sic does not repeatedly impose these penalties, a complaint should be filed with cic/sic on this score after the case is decided by it. This will make it necessary for IC to explain why penalty or departmental action is not imposed/recommended in a particular case. We must exert our right.

[colnrkurup]

When the CIC/SICs order the PIO to provide the information sought, there is absolutely no ambiguity that the PIO has, without any reasonable cause, refused to.. .. .. ..... .information (Section 20 RTI Act). The Act state that.....it shall impose a penalty of two hundred and fifty rupees .......... Hence it is obligatory on the Commission to award the penalty unconditionally at the rates stipulated in the Act. Please see the dictionery meaning of the word "shall" clearing any doubt on the issue

Shall: Something, that will take place or exist in the future.

Something, such as a promise , request or obligation. Eg: the penalty shall not
exceed 2 years in prison etc

Something that is inevitable

[hkdubey]

Still PIO neglect RTI applications, There are hundreds of reason they can mention for non reply/ avoiding correct reply. Ist appellte is found to support the decision of PIO. There must be asite where Number of appeals has been made and in number of cases PIO s are penalised, and Number of cases where Pio are not found Guilty should be Given a such report should go to President also.
Provision in the act should be also made to punish the 1st appeallate too, who is guilty in giving arbitary decision with fine as well as departmental punishment and should be treated as criminal offence and punishment of imprisonment of atleast 6 months should be there.
Unless the act is stringent there is no benefit of the act.

[jiwateshwar]

It is a known fact that to feel someone elses pain, one must have suffered the same. How can we expect the CIC\SIC to impose strict penalities when most of the ICs appointed in them are themselves Civil Servants. Only a few of them are prominent journalists etc. All others are retired I.A.S. officers. That is, they are themselves babus. It is stupid of us to think that they are on our side. In fact they have been placed there to make sure that no adverse decisions are taken against the babus. We see time and again in CICs decisions that the erring PIO just has to claim that the letter reached him late, or he had replied earlier but the applicant didnt receive the letter or that there was change of guard at office etc and without having to proove these the PIO is let off.

[hkdubey]

Originally Posted by vijendra singh

If PIO denied to supply the demanded information on one pretext or other ;&CIC after 7 months orders the PIO to supply the info to the innocent citizen, is it mandatory then for CIC to impose penalty on erring PIO ? Or is it simply at the will of CIC ? What is the clear rule of penalties .Today it is being observed that CIC has not been penalising even 1 % of erring PIOs. Appointing authority i.e. President must appraise the PERFORMANCE of the CIC .regularly.

YOu are correct I dont find any punishment to APIO and PIos too. It seems the law is TOOTH Less which cannot bite to erring PIO.

[hkdubey]

Originally Posted by jiwateshwar

It is a known fact that to feel someone elses pain, one must have suffered the same. How can we expect the CIC\SIC to impose strict penalities when most of the ICs appointed in them are themselves Civil Servants. Only a few of them are prominent journalists etc. All others are retired I.A.S. officers. That is, they are themselves babus. It is stupid of us to think that they are on our side. In fact they have been placed there to make sure that no adverse decisions are taken against the babus. We see time and again in CICs decisions that the erring PIO just has to claim that the letter reached him late, or he had replied earlier but the applicant didnt receive the letter or that there was change of guard at office etc and without having to proove these the PIO is let off.

Correct. They search act whisch can safe Guard them becoz they are members of same family.

[Anil Sood]

It is not always necessary to penalise the pio. This is my first contact after 8 months. I was very busy with CIC and SIC, U.P. in respect to my rti applications. Notices are issued to PIO but what happen next is totally bizare. PIO reply to information commissioner and they take various excuses and they also try to influence through their staff. ADM(NE) yesterday in m case requested that applicant should send a reminder before filling 1 and 2 appeal. order is reserved but i hope he will get penalised whereas i had requested the cheif information commissioner to pardon him after looking at his face and no. of requests he has made. but unless and until these sort of people are penalised they will not change their attitude.
Secondly reply of the pio in response to penality notice should be given to applicant/complainant also becuase they had suffer and they are in the best position to reply to the wrong pleas taken by the pio's.

[colnrkurup]

Dear Anil Sood,
Unknowingly you have touched a very vital aspect proving it by your own example. It is not at all easy to punish a man. This is more so for those who are not used to awarding punishment to others in younger days of their career. By age, one become mature, sensitive and humane. This exactly is the problem with the IAS (Retired) Officers performing the duties of ICs. In their younger days of service they might not have punished anyone due to political pressure from either of the side. How can they punish a PIO for an offence which during the entire carrier of the bureaucrate was considered as not an offence.? In the case of High Court/Supreme Court judges, they are used to it from the very first day of their service.

What made you request the Informtion Commissioner to pardon the PIO ? You felt a pang and does not want to spent sleepless nights. Do you expect the IAS(Retd) or Journalists or ICs with similar background other than Judicial or Defence Servce background to behave differently ?

[vijendra singh]

Dear sirs, after going through the various deep views of our learned , respected ,active ,honest members I came to some conclusions---- [1] I.Cs must NOT be from administrative services[IAS etc] [2]All the RTI activists deserve to become I Cs [3]Erring PIO & AA both must be penalised & punished without fail in each &every case. [4]I.Cs. who allow the erring PIOs to escape UNPUNISHED ,must be punished by the President of India. [5] All decisions of CIC must be scrutinised by CAG / NGO /Public etc because CIC was established to be a TRANSPARENT body & to convert the govt into TRANSPARENT BODY. [6] erring PIOs denying info knowingly must be chargsheeted. [7] CIC must have powers to award 'adverse annual entry' to erring PIO /AA. Sirs, This is lengthy topic ,I m tired now.If u want ,I can speak tomorrow.

[Anil Sood]

It is not possible to think in terms of taking revenge. I had suffered and still suffering from these corrupt PIO's from differrent offices. MCD, Law Ministry, Dy. Commissioner office, Registrar Cooperative, U.P. SIC, UP Law ministry, DDA and then at CIC.
One has to think on behalf of PIO's also. They have no power. Power is only on paper. How one can think if a senior of PIO ask him not to provide the information, he can deny the information because he has to reply to his senior and they can punish him any time. I will two example.
1. I complained to JS, Law Ministry against a standing Counsel who is misusing his position by using national emblem and using a post " Senior standing counsel for govt of inida at supreme court" a post which do not exists. The gentleman acknowledge his wrong doing and file noting was put to minister to drop the case against him. Minister wrote why he should not be droped and then the file was missing from the ministry till I did not file the RTI to know the fate of my complaint. A senior persons either JS or Secretary of law secretary is shielding him and no action is being taken.
2. Complaint was made to Dy.Comm(ND) against a stamp vendor who issue a stamp paper on 27-4-06 whereas the said stamp paper was issued to said vendor by delhi treasury on 11-5-06. No action was taken against the vendor. No reply was given by RTI. On 27-6-08, Cheif IC asked them to provide the information by 15-7-08 and called the PIO on 31.7.08 for penality. In the mean time PIO changed and called me for 4 days to give the information. Now they gave a paper each saying that the information is provided. whereas on delhi govt web site they update that the full information was provided in the time.
We have to think of their (babu, IAS officer)attitude also. They do not have the habit to plainly listen that they had committed a mistake. Their mantality that they are above the laws.
As RTI applicant/complainant we have also to understand the limitation of this ACT. If we want that this act should survive, we should not think that this act will remove all our difficulties. I had seen the RTI Application which is not at all relevant. People are submitting the application with court fees and then tey go in 1 & 2 appeal.
The volume of work is too much at CIC. Staff is over burdened and hence the quality of order suffers. If they maintain quality then the pile-up of application.
It is very easy to criticise but it is very difficult to restrain.
My sincere advice is to go for RTI only when it is necessary and any application, appeals (1 & 2) should be carefully drafted so that you should succeed to get the information. Thanks

[vijendra singh]

If PIO IS HONEST , INFO WILL BE SUPPLIED TIMELY &THERE WILL BE NO QUESTION OF PENALTY. DISHONEST PIO MUST NEVER BE LEFT UNPENALISED. LAW SAYS SO.

[nukebomb]

Sir . I think we must not be lenient to lazy or currupt pios . If one is punished many will stop hiding information .

[hkdubey]

Originally Posted by nukebomb

Sir . I think we must not be lenient to lazy or currupt pios . If one is punished many will stop hiding information .

You are Correct

[Anil Sood]

I agrees with you

[jps50]

To compel CIC/SICs to invariably penalise defaulting PIOs, a writ should be filed in High Courts for directions to CIC/SICs to follow section 20 without discrimination. CIC/SICs are not above RTI provisions! In fact this will reduce work load at CIC/SICs as PIOs and FAAs would be properly discharging their duties due to deterrance of impending fixed penalty. This will make RTI more effective. Some advocate can go for a writ or PIL, as it happened recently in do-not-call registry for mobiles.

[DineshK]

Work load at CIC is piling only because of negligence at PIO level. Most of them think themselves above law and never care for the RTI application until it is filed at CIC. After they get the date of hearing they run for the excuses.

Workload of CIC will be decrease sharply if strict action is taken against PIOs.