Need Clarification about Junior PIO/AA

[Dr.R.K.D.Goel]

08.10.2008
The Public Authorities (PAs) those appointed 69 PIOs and the PIOs immediate superior as AAs how to deal with them?
Even the RTI Act 2005 applicants needed informations of Policy matter from the level of PA or his next subordinate don't reach to the head of office who is a PA.
The policy matter REPLY is given by very junior clerk level PIOs / AAs. In this circunstances who is to be held responsible for giving the wrong and incomplete informations.
In such cases I requested the PIOs / AAs to submit the file for guidance to his head of department who is the PA as per the RTI Act 2005, but all in vain.

Should we held the PA responsible when 2nd appeal is filed to the Chief Information Commissioner?

Guide in such circumstances where the head of the department who is a PA and don't take any responsibility of wrong / incomplete replies by his PIOs and first AAs of the PA. Will the SCIC may call the PA or not during hearing the 2nd appeal and fix the responsibility of PA?
This problem I am getting from the PA of Municipla Corporation of Vadodara who has appointed PIOs / AAs very junior rank staff those don't have power to reply the policy matter / decesion of the higher up. The PA don't know what type the informations are frequently asked from his department. When approach the PA his reply is "you call our PIOs / AAs in the Court of 2nd and final appeal authority i.e. SCIC" their PIOs / AAs will reply there.

IS THIS ATTITUDE OF A RESPONSIBLE PA IS CORRECT? THIS IS HAPPENING WITH THE PA OF MUNICIPAL CORPORATION OF VADODARA WHO IS AN IAS OFFICER AND MUNICIPAL COMMISSINER HAVING CONSTITUTIONAL RESPONSIBILITIES,
Dr.R.K.D.Goel Vadodara.

[karira]

Dr Goel,

Your above post has been moved to a new thread since it was posted in a thread about news item posted by another member.

[DineshK]

In all cases PIO who is appointed by PA is solely responsible and you should not worry about who has taken action on that application. In all offices most of the job is done by clerks/assistants under the supervision of the officer who is responsible for them. It is PIO who signed the reply to application and not the clerk or the assistance.

If you are not satisfied with the reply from PIO, you should file a first appeal to FAA and then a second appeal to CIC/SIC if yo are still not satisfied.

[Dr.R.K.D.Goel]

08.10.2008
But in such cases the PIOs / FAAs are made responsible by the SCIC and not the PA. I find many PIOs /FAAs of the Vadodara Municipal Corporation Vadodara are very innocent as they don't have any training of RTI Act 2005 which is mandatory for the PA to send his PIOs / FAAs for training. Secondly my applications are in english which is difficult for the PIOs / FAAs of VMC to understand being they are very poor in english and do all their corrospondance in Gujarati.

When I find that a PIO is a very raw hand who has not even provided any guidace by his immediate supervisor who is acting as FAA I feel not to report to SCIC becuase the poor PIO who is un guided / untrained will unnecessary be penalised by the SCIC.

In such cases I feel my duty to guide the PIOs / FAAs and 90 % try not to appeal to SCIC.
The RTI Act 2005 Activists having the duty to also trained the PIOs / FAAs when we are propogating the RTI Act 05 in the Public.

I might have given more than 100 sets of RTI Act 05 guidance to such PIOs / FAAs free of cost so that they may be trained in processing the RTI applications more intelegently with proper replies.

[abhi987]

Dear Mr. Goel,

Can you please tell me as to the pendency of cases at the State Information Commission at Gujarat.

Can you please also tell me as to the date/year of the case which is being presently heard / listed at the Gujarat SIC at the moment.

[Dr.R.K.D.Goel]

08.10.2008
Till date I might have filed more than 25 applications to the PA of Municipal Corporation Vadodara from October2005. As stated above I take very difficult decision to appeal to SCIC against the PIOs / FAAs of the VMC.
My about 15 applications are pending with the GSCIC. Here also I feel that Mr.R.N.Das IAS, Hon'ble GSCIC is justified in the delays of disposing the 2nd appeals as he is the only SGCIC in place of 10 SCICs

My two applications are heared by the SCIC in October 2007 but till date not issued any orders / judgments. The reasons are best known to me as well as to the GSCIC.

My all applications are of Public Interest such as I asked what the State government took action on the Hon'ble Gujarat High Court / Apex Court directives. As the Gujarat bureaucrats have not taken any actions on the Hon'ble Gujarat High Court Orders / Directives of Public interest from 2000, if they give reply to me it will be embrassing to the State Government.

I am trying to short out my problems with the GSCIC soon. Will provide full data of my applications from PIOs to GSCIC to the Forum soon.

[Dr.R.K.D.Goel]

As an RTI Act 2005 Activists we should also consider all the problems of the PIOs / AAs. Most of the PIOs / FAAs are under pressure not to give the replies to an RTI Act 2005 applicant which become embrassing to them. But now three years have passed of the RTI Act, we should not hasitate to write and take action against the errant PIOs / FAAs even with the SCIC.

[Dr.R.K.D.Goel]

09.10.2008
Dear Mr Dinesh K
I don't agree with your sugestion that we should file 2nd appeal who may be the PIO/FAA. Now you might have agreed with my all the replies.
We cant be rough with the PIOs / FAAs to get them panalished by the SCIC with out their faults. We should be more parctical in dealing with the human aspect of the PIOs / AAs problems.
If we will not understand the problems of the PA / PIO / FAA and aslo the SCIC, the RTI Act 2005 will be a failure. Now so many PIOs / AAs are started that the RTI applications are to harrass the PIOs / AAs and to take the revenge having personal interest.

We should not bring such situation otherwise the RTI Act 2005 in long run will die its own death.

You know that to finally dispose an RTI applications upto its conclusion from reply of PIO then FAA and 2nd appeals to SCIC it take at present minimum one year.

If we file a PIL in the Hon'ble High Court it may be decided with in 3 to 6 months.

We should have practical approach for the success of the RTI Act and not file unjustified applications under RTI Act 05. Our demands and greviences should be genuine. This is my personal opinion to make the RTI Act a successfull tool which we got after 58 years of our freedom to get our Fundamrntal Rights through RTI Act with minimum time and expenditure.

We should avoid mis-use of the RTI Act 05 and should not use it just the sake of pleasure as it have no cost and going through the advocates. You know that in so many cases of PILs the Hon'ble High Courts / Apex Court started to fine PIL applicants.

[DineshK]

The main aim of filing a RTI application is to get the information which is on record. Even if the PIO is not trained he atleast knows what information he has to provide. In case of doubts he can consult his seniors. Most of the SPICs have provided two/three pages instructions for the PIO which are very easy to understand.

Now for example if I want a list of sweepers from PIO of my municipality department, what training does he need to provide it ? And in case he is not giving such a simple information or giving wrong information then why FAA or PA should be made responsible for it ?

[abhi987]

Dear Mr. Goel,

Information has to be provided.

One needs to be objective and not subjective.

Human element although very important should not come in the way of being professional, because if you choose to sympathise a few human beings, society as a whole suffers.

You have completely misread the prevalent conditions in the country.

I am sorry to put it this way but there is close to 100% corruption, leave alone studies conducted by some agencies for corruption perception index, and it is not one state, pendency of cases is there across all the states.

How can you sympathise with a pendency of cases for more than one year at CSIC, if he is only one person he should have appointed more IC's to subbordinate him, also does he work round the clock to see that pendency of cases come down to a justifiable level, and ofcourse it has to be in the range of days and months and not year.

No excuse please, perform or .......

[Dr.R.K.D.Goel]

I know very well the Aims and Objectives of the RTI Act 2005 to bring the Transparency and Accoutability in the Government organisations so that we may reduce the prevailing rampant corruption prevailing in India.
We are getting the results of the RTI Act 2005. Now the RTI Act 2005 applicant get responses from the errant officers those previously use not to bother to reply and not behaving properly with the Public and suffewrers since decades.

But one has to give the Natural Justice to the PIOs / FAAs to listern them also.
There is no question to copromise with the Corrupt / Errant officers to get success of the RTI Act 05.

Still you have not properly understood my view points. I am too much harsh with the Corrupt and errant PIOs / AAs. My point that we should also do home work before we appeal to the 2nd appeal authority who is only having the powerts to penalise the PIOs / FAAs.
Our 2nd appeals should not get rejected by the SCIC / CIC. We should have 100% succes to win the case in the court of SCICs / CIC. Hope this is clear to you my personal view points in dealing the RTI Act 05.

The Act provide that the PIOs /FAAs should also get Natural Justice that is why there is provision to appeal to SCICs / CIC so that the PIOs / FAAs may also get Natural Justice to be heard before they get penalised by the SCICs / CIC.

Please we should not have further discussions on this my view point. ONCE AGAIN I CLEAR TO YOU THAT THE CORRUPT SHOULD BE PENALISED TO MINIMISE CORRUPTION IN INDIA AND BRING TRASPARENCY / ACCOUNTABILITY IN OUR ROTTEN SYSTEM.

[Dr.R.K.D.Goel]

09.10.2008
Dear Mr.S.K. (abhi 987)
Please again you have not understand me regarding the numbers of SCIC. you said if he is one he / she should clear the RTI aplications appeals. Do you know how many petition / Case are pending in Indian Courts? Tge reason is given that there is shortage of Judges. Can we force the Chief Justice of India to pass orders to clear all the pendind cases in the Indian Courts wheather there is sufficient Judges or not? NO

I have previously given the result of a RTI conference of Ahmedabad. Which I am again repeating below: -
As reported by Rahul Mangaonkar of TNN on 19 March 2008 When will this man wake up and act?

(PHOTO OF Mr. P.K.GERA IAS, which can't be attached here)

CAUGHT NAPPING: TOI photographer found administrative reforms and training division secretary P K Gera sleeping while citizens narrated their RTI experiences at a seminar in Ahmedabad on Monday This is a discussion on When will this man wake up and act? within the RTI News & Discussion forums, part of the RTI News, Circulars and Decisions category; As reported by Rahul Mangaonkar of TNN on 19 March 2008: Welcome When will this man wake up and act? State govt’s dithering on GIC staff robbing RTI Act
Ahmedabad: The Right to Information (RTI) Act has its origin in the need for survival of the people and their fundamental rights. But the Gujarat Information Commission (GIC), whose job is to enforce the Act, finds its own survival in question with no staff being allocated by the state government six months after it was sanctioned and a backlog of a whopping 3,665 cases to dispose.

This had prompted RTI activists, led by Magsaysay award winner Arvind Kejriwal of Parivartan and Nikhil Dey of Majdoor Kisan Shakti Sangathan, to take on the state government at a seminar on RTI here on Monday. They said they are ready to offer their services to run GIC at a token fee of Re 1.

Activists are peeved at the way the state’s general administration department and the administrative reforms and training department (ARTD) under it, responsible for allotment of staff to GIC, have failed to act.

TOI had earlier reported how in September last year, the chief minister’s office (CMO) sanctioned the appointment of 35 additional staff for GIC, which started in 2005. Against a total sanctioned strength of 46, the GIC is functioning with just 11, which includes peons and drivers.

And, the man who could have given GIC the teeth, PK Gera, an IAS officer of 1985 batch, has not shown any willingness to ensure that his department allocates the people. Gera should know, having served at the Central Information Commission in Delhi.

However, all that Gera has to say is that “it is GAD that is not allotting the staff.” Gera says these staff could be allotted once the two new commissioners are appointed, activists point out that these commissioners too are part of the same GIC. “The 35 additional staff sanctioned are for the new commissioners. Let them take charge and staff will follow,” Gera insists.

“The staff crunch has only emboldened those officers who do not wish to comply with the RTI regime as they feel that the system has no teeth,” said Kejriwal.
You can also propose the following to the Governors of your State:

This had prompted RTI activists, led by Magsaysay award winner Arvind Kejriwal of Parivartan and Nikhil Dey of Majdoor Kisan Shakti Sangathan, to take on the state government at a seminar on RTI here on Monday. They said they are ready to offer their services to run GIC at a token fee of Re 1.

FROM ABOVE YOU MIGHT HAVE UNDERSTOOD THAT APOINTMENT OF ANOTHER STATE INFORMATION COMMISSIONER AND HIS STAFF IS NOT IN THE POWER OF GSCIC.IT IS GUJARAT STATE GOVERNMENT TO APPOINT.

Even sanction of post of another Information Commissioner and staff of GSCIC in September, 2007 till date after one year no staff is appointed by the Gujarat state Chief Minister. WHAT THE GSCIC CAN DO?

Dear friends there are still so many problems to make the RTI Act 2005 a success.
Mr.Narendra Modi, Hon'ble Chief Minister of Gujarat is known to be a honest and good administrator, even he is not providing the staff of GSCIC for achieving the AIMS and Objectives of RTI Act 2005 i.e. to bring the "Transparency and Accountability" in the corrupt Indian system. Our founder RTI Act 2005 Activists like Mr. Arvind Kejriwal are trying their best for the success of RTI Act 2005.
Even the Gujarat government was not giving the File notings, which has to be implemented by going to the Gujarat High Court.

Please understand my personal views how to get best from RTI Act 2005 in the present conditions when most bureaucrats don't want the RTI Act 2005. We are fighting to have our Rights through RTI Act 05.

Sorry for my this explanation to you again for which I seek pardon from you for my own point of Views.