30 days starts from which date?

[avinash]

Dear all

Suppose an application under RTI is sent on a particular date and the payment of Rs 10/- made 10 days later, the 30 day period starts from which date - the date of receipt of the letter or the date of payment?


Regards

Avinash

[mpai]

Originally Posted by avinash

Dear all

the 30 day period starts from which date - the date of receipt of the letter or the date of payment?
Avinash

The count down for the 30 days starts from the date of the receipt of the original RTI Application, irregardless of the date of the payment of fees.

However, you have to ensure that you pay the application fee before the 30th day.

[karira]

Manoj,

I think that is not correct.
The clock starts ticking from the time the complete application is received.
That should include the application fee.

Following is a decision from the CIC regarding time limit where some cost in giving the information was required:

DECISION:
To calculate the time limit under the RTI Act, if cost has to be remitted for providing information, then, receipt of the cost shall be the starting point for determining the period during which the information has to be provided.

Full decision can be viewed at:

http://cic.gov.in/CIC-Orders/Decision_08062007_08.pdf

I think same yardstick can be applied to the application fee of Rs 10.00

This is a important point. Hope we can thrash it out and get to a final answer.

[kushal]

This post can also be used as reference when the PIO ask to deposit, say cost of photocopy charges: http://www.rtiindia.org/forum/3027-post6.html

[mpai]

Originally Posted by karira

I think that is not correct.
The clock starts ticking from the time the complete application is received.
That should include the application fee.

Well thats what the PIO's would like us to believe. Further one cannot apply a CIC decision to every application. It all depends on the circumstances. Let me inform that there are dozens of CIC decisions where the applicant had received the information without paying the application fee, while the PIO was issues show cause notice for penalty.

What happens if the PIO refuses to accept your RTI Application at all?
In this case of course, the date starts from the day the attempt was made to submit the original application. Same can also apply if he refuses to accept your fees.

The decision under reference is related to the payment of fee for photocopying charges. In such cases the intervening period between the date of despatch of the letter of the PIO for fee and the deposit of this fee is not counted.

Let me elaborate

1. Turning back to the original question posted by Avinash, suppose he submited an application on 1st May.
2. Ten days later on 11th May deposited the Rs.10/- application fee.
3. On 20th the PIO communicated to Avinash asking him to deposit Rs.50/- for photocopying 25 pages.
4. Avinash deposit the fee on 26th May.
5. Then the 30th day would fall 4th June.

Manoj

[karira]

Ok, Manoj, in that case why are SIC's (in many cases) and CIC (in some cases) rejecting appeals just because the applicant did not give proof of his payment of Rs 10.00 as application fee.

[mpai]

Originally Posted by karira

Ok, Manoj, in that case why are SIC's (in many cases) and CIC (in some cases) rejecting appeals just because the applicant did not give proof of his payment of Rs 10.00 as application fee.

Its how you present your case before the CIC / SIC. Stick to the point, avoid pointless arguments, dont worry about petty stuff. The CIC / SIC decide on what is put forward to them. PIOs/AA have the advantage of hiring expensive lawers, at our costs, to help them put up the cases. Its the applicants who arent experienced in negotiation or are not able to communicate properly have their appeals rejected.

You will note in my previous post, about there being dozens of CIC decisions where the applicant had received the information without paying the application fee, while the PIO was issues show cause notice for penalty.

Manoj

[karira]

Manoj,

Have a look at this decision of 14th June 2007 and please give comment:

Commission’s Decision:
3. Until the prescribed fee of Rs.10/- is paid in the form of valid instruments, namely cash, bank draft or IPO, the RTI Act would not get invoked. The complainant is, therefore, advised to deposit the RTI fees, as above, to obtain the required information.

Full decision can be viewed at:http://cic.gov.in/CIC-Orders/Decision_14062007_07.pdf

[mpai]

Originally Posted by karira

Manoj,

Commission’s Decision:
3. Until the prescribed fee of Rs.10/- is paid in the form of valid instruments, namely cash, bank draft or IPO, the RTI Act would not get invoked. The complainant is, therefore, advised to deposit the RTI fees, as above, to obtain the required information.

Yes, I had a look at this decision besides several others earlier. If you observe closely, it looks like the hearing was never held at all.

CIC decisions, being of quasi judicial nature, should be speaking orders. There are no details on the nature of the information asked etc.

An important note, I would like to ask the PIOs who might be reading this is that, next time you write to an applicant to pay the Rs.10/- fee, never forget to mention the BPL Certificate. Of course, it cannot apply to the current CIC decision referred to by Karira, as the applicant is an advocate from Shivpuri. Maybe he had some trick up his sleeve.

Manoj

[karira]

Manoj,

Advocates can also be under BPL !
At least my advocate always cribs that he is poor.
(He He He He He He He, LOL)

[mpai]

Originally Posted by karira

Advocates can also be under BPL !
At least my advocate always cribs that he is poor.
(He He He He He He He, LOL)

Jokes appart, advocates have to enroll under the Bar Council. Recent membership is slightly high now. Besides, they have a lot of welfare measuers etc. So in very rare case, would they actually hold a BPL Card.

Manoj

[chanda_s]

if one is found holding a BPL card, i think it is time to use RTI to find out how on earth he managed to get it.

that apart, it was a wonderful discussion. but whats the result? when do the 30 days start?

to my knowledge and understanding, it would be 30 days from the reciept of complete request and no request is complete without the fees prescribed. further, if the PIO intimates the applicant to pay additional fee for providing information, then as per section 7(3)(a) "the period intervening between the despatch of the said intimation and payment of fees shall be excluded for the purpose of calculating the period of thirty days referred to.."

so as per example given by Mr. mpai in the post numbered 5 in this thread, the period of 30 days commences on 11th may and expires on 15th June. by 15th june, the information has to be provided.

[chanda_s]

the following post may please be checked in this context. can anybody provide the actual decision? the post reports a CIC decision that the information has to be provided within 30 days from the date of request and not from the date of payment of fees prescribed.

http://www.rtiindia.org/forum/rti-ne...-days-cic.html

[karira]

Originally Posted by chanda_s

to my knowledge and understanding, it would be 30 days from the reciept of complete request and no request is complete without the fees prescribed.

Chanda,

Even I had the similar opinion as you.

But I just read the decision of CIC quoted by you in your subsequent post.
The full decision can be viewed at:

http://cic.gov.in/CIC-Orders/Decision_08122006_9.pdf

The argument given by CIC Mr Habibullah is:

Appellate Authority Shri Thakur’s claim that the time limit begins to apply only
from the date of receipt of the fees is without basis in law. Under Sec. 7(1), on
receipt of a request u/s 6, the CPIO shall as expeditiously as possible and in any
case within 30 days of the receipt of the request provide the information on
payment of such fee as may be prescribed. It is, therefore, clear that whereas
the information may be provided only once the fee is received, it is not
open to the CPIO to begin process of the application for information from
the date the fee is received.

Basically, he feels that the PIO should have the information "ready" within 30 days, and give it to the applicant when the fees are received.

[mpai]

Originally Posted by karira

Chanda,

Basically, he feels that the PIO should have the information "ready" within 30 days, and give it to the applicant when the fees are received.

You are absolutely right Karira. However, may I ask the moderator, what happened to the "Thanks" option in the forum?

Manoj

[kushal]

Thanks manoj for pointing it out. It's back, but the earlier one had an exploit which might have compromised the database, hence removed. The only disadvantage as of now is that all thanks are rest to 'Zero'. It's the beginning again

[wagh7]

Respected sir,

To avoid such position, we the applicants and RTI Activists have to bind the PIO's who just want to delay. One method of binding the PIO's is along with applicantion fee of Rs.10/- just add advance document and postal fee just approximate so that it makes PIO's binding over the time.

rakatkam.

[kushal]

ust add advance document and postal fee just approximate

Would you be kind enough to explain a bit more about this?