Where to go next?

[pvrai]

I had sought information for late running of regular Train 2785 Kaceguda - Bangalore from South West Railways. When they refused to give information on rates specified by the RTI act, I approached Central Commissioner (Railways), with my appeal in the month of dec'2006. They sent back my appeal in Feb'2007, for resubmission in proper format. I resubmitted in the prescribed format.

Now, it's june and I am yet to get enen a word of acknowledgment from CIC, New Delhi. Whom do I approach next ?

[kushal]

Hello,
I am not sure if I understood properly, You re-submitted in format at Central Commissioner (railways) as 1st appeal, and then you mentioned that you did not get the acknowledgment from CIC (Central Information Commission). Well CIC is for 2nd appeal, so can you clarify where actually have you sent the appeal?

[pvrai]

Sorry, I couldn't make myself understood better first time. I will try again.

1. I am a regular traveler in 2785. It was made superfast express in last timetable released in July'2007. Consequently, fare was increased as it was now a superfast.

2. Unfortunately, now due to changed timing, the train was running late every day. Surprisingly, it couldn't even maintain its non-superfast day timings either.

3. When authorities were approached in the railway, they maintained that train was running punctually.

4. Fortunately, railways maintain the exact timing internally in their control chart.

5. I approached the PIO in Bangalore division under the RTI act, to give me copies of timing from the control chart for a period of three months.

6. The PIO asked me an astronomical sum for supply of this information. No information was given as to how the sum was arrived at.

7. I begged for a review of PIO orders by the authority above him.

8. This officer also choose to reiterate the earlier position of his PIO.

9. I then appealed to CIC(Railways) in New Delhi for suitable direction. The CIC(Railways) after a month sent back the papers to me stating that my appeal should be in specific format.

10. I resubmitted the appeal in the prescribed format and sent the all the papers back.

Around 4 months have passed after the last action, but there is a deafing silence. So my earlier post asked - What Next?

[kushal]

You must lodge a 2nd appeal with the CIC.
By the way, there is no CIC (railways). it can only be Appellant authority who hears the 1st appeal.

You must appeal to the Central Information Commission who is the 2nd appellant authority, and where the conplaint can be lodged. However, as you have said 4 months have passed, you must apply for the exemption as to why you are appealing late.

Follow the instructions in the FAQ here: http://www.rtiindia.org/forum/faq.ph...faq_2nd_appeal

[pvrai]

When I said CIC(Railways), I meant the Information Commissioner who dealt with Railways. It was Dr.OPK at that time. now the work seem to be bifurcated between the two IC.

Anyway, I don't think addressing to the right man was the problem as I got a reply back for resubmission under proper format.

Your advice to send a second appeal would have been taken if the system is perfect !! For people leaving away from the capital, its a big cost to keep resending the appeal. Its very easy for a government organization without accountability to say that they have not received the appeal until and unless you hand deliver and take acknowledgment.

If an organization claims transparency, then it should enable posting of appeals on its website where the Registration number will be auto generated.

In the present scenario, you will get a registration number only if it is not filtered at lower level of Dak dealer or office staff. To overcome it you have to be persistent and for that you have to have enough resources. You cannot expect a sleeper class railway traveler to have that kind of resources.

Any way I compliment you for your e-initiative. I hope CIC also goes for e-governance but modifying the website with less of self glorification on the site in the way of photographs and achievement of the IC's and interactive site.

[karira]

P V Rai,

You have raised a very good issue !

The railways have been congratulated by all and sundry in increased revenue, but unfortunately they are just backstabbing consumers and taking them for a "ride" (pun intended)

Several issues regarding the Railways are being raised by commuters/travellers and we must find a good way to use RTI Act to highlight these issues:

1. As you said, late running of trains
2. Conversion of normal Express trains to Super Fast status,
charging travellers extra "superfast charges" and infact slowing down
the train ! (Yes, strange but true).
3. Increasing charges for e-ticket and i-ticket
4. Withdrawal of "telescoping" of fares and combining of journey segments
5. Increase of tatkal quota (and thus trying to "cream" the milk)
while reducing number of normally booked berths
etc...

Back to your problem with CIC, once the 2nd appeal is submitted, a change in the IC should not make a difference of 4 months.

I agree with you about all people not having resources, but we have to use whatever means are available with us at this moment.

Can you please do the following:

1. Send a email to:
Shri P KP Shreysaskar
Under Secretary

Email :- pkp.shreyaskar@nic.in
Tele No.:- 26717354
Fax No. :- 26105027

The Railways fall under him. Outline your case and references , if any, clearly.

2. If you do not get a reply say within a wek or so, then lodge a "complaint" with CIC.

[kushal]

This thread may be of relevance:
How to get information regrarding Superfast train actual speed?

Regards,

[pvrai]

Thanks Karira, I will do that.

But it was a undersecretary who sent back my first appeal for resubmission !!

This is a holiday season. Railways are very powerful during this season. EQ (Emergency Quota) is a tool which they use for "building relationship" with babus of other ministry !!

[karira]

pvrai,

The undersecretary sent back the 2nd appeal because of incorrect format.
Please send him a email.
I sent him a email about two contradictory orders from CIC, and he replied with complete clarification !
PVrai, which world are you living in ?
I was told just yesterday by "third-in-line" of SC Railway that EQ quota is not even being released to "one's own father" (quoting ad-verbatim)...you think these people will do favours to anyone ? Forget it.
By the way, if you go to your local MP or MLA to request for a recommendation letter for EQ, they charge for it.

[mpai]

Originally Posted by karira

I was told just yesterday by "third-in-line" of SC Railway that EQ quota is not even being released to "one's own father" (quoting ad-verbatim)...you think these people will do favours to anyone ? Forget it.
By the way, if you go to your local MP or MLA to request for a recommendation letter for EQ, they charge for it.

Karira, there are certain guidelines and procedures to be followed for release of the EQ. For example a student with a hall ticket, who has to appear for an interview, is given first preference. Followed by somebody who to undergo an emergency operation, interview with Govt. Deptt. or even a Foreign Embassy for visa etc. Railway Deptt. are co-operative in this regard. You clearly have to specify whats the emergency in your request application which is to be handed over at least a day earlier. In some cases, like death of family members etc. they consider it even at short notice.

MP / MLA have a different quota, either called Higher Officer or Parliament House Quota. Not all of them(MP/MLAs) charge for it. Some local MPs do in on a daily basis free ;-)

In a way, the railways are slightly more transparent than other similarly placed Government Deptts. Dont they put up the entire passenger list for every one to see? They preserve the charts for six months. So even if you want to see these list or take copies, they provide them readily. Currently the Upgradation Passenger Scheme Chart is available on the Indian railway's website. I suppose, very soon, they will be putting up the entire passenger list on the site.

Manoj

[karira]

Manoj,

I am sorry.
I disagree with you completely and want to join issue about this.
In India, norms, guidelines, procedures are for the gullible people to believe that all is "hunky dory". They are NOT to be followed by the government.
Please give me your snail mail address. I will mail you a blank and signed letter from a MP for EQ Railway reservation , you only need to fill in the personal and journey details before approaching the EQ cell in any railway zone.
Manoj, these are all ways and means for our leaders to keep their flock by passing out handouts and also make money.

The railways are indeed more transparent than others as far as the reservation sytem is concerned. I am in no position to comment about tenders, purchases and other areas. In fact, I think that their "tatkal" scheme should be extended to ALL Government departments. If you want to get your work done faster, why pay a bribe to a government servant, why not pay the Government this "extra" amount and get your work done faster.
Even Maruti had a "tatkal" scheme where you paid the "black" amount officially to Maruti and you got immediate allotment. At least, if you pay the government, you know that a small percentage of this comes back to you !

[pvrai]

ref : Your letter D.No.IC(k)-2287 dated: 25.1.07

I had resubmitted the appeal in 4 copies and proper format, as directed by your above referred letter, through my letter dated: 13th Feb, 2007 (copies enclosed as attachment). I have not even received an acknowledgment of the same. I had lost all hopes as my case doesn't even appear in the registered list on your website.But one of the RTI forums asked me to approach you through this email address. Hence, I request you to kindly convey the latest status of my case.


Regards


P. V Rai

[pvrai]

The above email has been sent to - pkp.shreyaskar@nic.in

[mpai]

Originally Posted by karira

Please give me your snail mail address. I will mail you a blank and signed letter from a MP for EQ Railway reservation , you only need to fill in the personal and journey details before approaching the EQ cell in any railway zone.

The railways are indeed more transparent than others as far as the reservation sytem is concerned. I am in no position to comment about tenders, purchases and other areas. In fact, I think that their "tatkal" scheme should be extended to ALL Government departments. If you want to get your work done faster, why pay a bribe to a government servant, why not pay the Government this "extra" amount and get your work done faster.

Karira,

Some such blank forms signed by MPs are freely available at the paan shops, just outside the railway station in major cities. Once, we had pick up a big bunch and handed over entire lot of blank forms to the PRO of the same railway station

Looks like the blokes at the Indian Railway read your earlier post. There is a move to scrap the EQ now.

P V Rai, I did a search on the CIC site. Though there is no entry of PV Rai, but there is one on V P Rai, beaing number CIC/OK/A/2007/00550, received on 16th March, 07 and address @ a Vijaynagar East, Bangalore. The PIO is Adl. Div. Railway Manager, Bangalore. Could this be yours?

Please check at following link after entering Rai in the name of appellant option.

Central Information Commission - Action Status

Best wishes

Manoj

[pvrai]

Right, that's my appeal !!

My apologies to everybody.

I was entering in Name of CPIO/App Authority/Orgn Railways. This never threw up my appeal. My mistake definitely !

My confidence in state machinery to deliver is restored.

[karira]

pvrai,

Very good !
Please follow up on your appeal and share the outcome with this forum.

[mpai]

Originally Posted by pvrai

Right, that's my appeal !!

My confidence in state machinery to deliver is restored.

60 years of independence, RTI Act, 2005 - Mera Bharat Mahaan !

[pvrai]

I have got a communication from CIC. They have asked me to appear before IC on 29.11.07 at 2:00 pm at Delhi.

Now the point is I am a old man - 78 years, living on my savings. If I could go/come and stay in Delhi winter for just a hearing, I would have done it. But neither my health or finances permit me.

Is there a way out or should I drop my appeal?

As rightly said by mpai: "Mera Bharat Mahaan !"

[ganpat1956]

There is a facility for attending the CIC hearing through the tele-conferencing mode, which can be arranged through the NIC studio nearest to your place of residence. Please dont drop your appeal.