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Thread: RTI to locate original agreement and find out exact stamp duty/penalty amount

  1. #9

    Re: RTI to locate original agreement and find out exact stamp duty/penalty amount


    file mutilple RTI applications with different identities find out
    from this <year> to this <year> provide certified copies of all rules or circulars on accepting orignal records for registration
    ask for how and where orignal documents are stored and policy thereon
    to my understing somebody is taking you for a ride as you are unaware of practices in sro office
    for simple quries in your mind file RTIs and get ready with reply which will be more confusing


    maharashtra has 150 word rule read attached circular


    Attached Files Attached Files

  2. Re: RTI to locate original agreement and find out exact stamp duty/penalty amount


    The presumption is that the registration was done by compromising with some lower officials and market value was stated less thus reducing the stamp duty. Later, the mistake was found out, and original documents are with held and a demand notice was sent to pay more stamp fee as the market value arrived is less (There may be registrations with many times more higher market value in the same locality on record)
    There are hundreds of such documents not returned to purchasers in AP State on grounds as these stated above paragraph.

  3. Re: RTI to locate original agreement and find out exact stamp duty/penalty amount


    Quote Originally Posted by jj99 View Post
    file mutilple RTI applications with different identities find out
    from this <year> to this <year> provide certified copies of all rules or circulars on accepting orignal records for registration
    ask for how and where orignal documents are stored and policy thereon
    to my understing somebody is taking you for a ride as you are unaware of practices in sro office
    for simple quries in your mind file RTIs and get ready with reply which will be more confusing


    maharashtra has 150 word rule read attached circular
    Thanks for the attachments, jj99. Does the 150-word limit include things like the below:
    1. Statement/declaration: "I hereby state that I am seeking the information as a citizen of India. I also state that the information sought is not covered under the categories exempted from disclosure of information under section 8 or section 9 of the RTI Act, 2005, and to the best of my knowledge it pertains to your office."
    2. Statement: "I hereby inform that I have deposited the requisite fee of Rs. 10/- by way of Cash/Postal Order favoring ______________ dated ________________."
    3. Request: "I request that the above information may please be provided in English and by Speed Post."


    Quote Originally Posted by G.L.N. Prasad View Post
    The presumption is that the registration was done by compromising with some lower officials and market value was stated less thus reducing the stamp duty. Later, the mistake was found out, and original documents are with held and a demand notice was sent to pay more stamp fee as the market value arrived is less (There may be registrations with many times more higher market value in the same locality on record)
    There are hundreds of such documents not returned to purchasers in AP State on grounds as these stated above paragraph.
    This could be the reason, Mr Prasad, though I am not sure about it. From what my parents recollect, the initial stamp duty amount paid (after signing the agreement) was the only stamp duty paid. At the time of registration, additional amount towards stamp duty was to be paid, but my parents didn't get around to doing so. Partly on account of negligence and partly on account of misunderstanding. An agent was involved in the process, but they don't remember exactly what happened, and I can't quite figure out now. Nevertheless, if stamp duty is not paid in full, can it be grounds for the department withholding the original document?

    At present, I have drafted out an application with the following three questions.

    1. Please inform me the office (branch and contact details) where my original agreement document has been retained.
    2. If the original agreement document has been returned to the custodian, please provide acknowledgement of the same on record.
    3. Please provide me the copy of laid down rules and regulations for returning of original documents after registration to the purchaser, and the rules that permit retention of such document for recovering any stamp duty.

    Requesting your comments on the above.

    Thank you.

  4. Re: RTI to locate original agreement and find out exact stamp duty/penalty amount



    Just to add, we filed an RTI a couple weeks back and received a response. The letter we received was actually a copy of a letter forwarded to another department ".... since the information related to thisapplication is related to your office, the original application is sent to youfor the procedure as per section 6 (3) of the Additional Information Act."

    A footnote was referenced to us stating that since the information we require is earlier than 2002, we should contact the other department.

    I understand from this that the RTI has been forwarded to the concerned department. However, do we need to contact this other department (send them the same RTI application directly, for example) to receive a response? Or should we just wait, giving 1 month time plus departmental transfer/postal delays?

  5. Re: RTI to locate original agreement and find out exact stamp duty/penalty amount


    The proper way is to file fresh copy of such application with a covering letter to SPIO (No.2 with whom one similar application was pending) stating that it was understood that the information solicited prior to 2002 was under custody and control of the PIO, request them to respond within prescribed 30 days from receipt of that RTI Application and also request them to provide FAA of second PIO as expeditiously as possible.
    Wait for 30 days from the date of filing this copy of application and then decide on filing first appeal.
    Thus, it appears to IC that you have been exploring all alternates to get that information from Public Authority.

    (I do not know whether the Public Authority of PIO No.1 and PIO No.2 is one and the same. If the public authority is different only, Sec. 6 (3) comes into effect. To me it appears that PIO No.1 and No.2 are same public authority, and the application was just endorsed to relevant PIO and sec.6 (3) shall not apply in your case)

  6. Re: RTI to locate original agreement and find out exact stamp duty/penalty amount


    The address of No 2 department provided appears to be in the same area (perhaps even in the same building). So 6(3) may not be applicable, but they have still transferred it under that. I’m not sure whether we really need to take cognizance of the transfer under sec 6(3). Does it affect the application in any way?

    Quote Originally Posted by G.L.N. Prasad View Post
    The proper way is to file fresh copy of such application with a covering letter to SPIO (No.2 with whom one similar application was pending) stating that it was understood that the information solicited prior to 2002 was under custody and control of the PIO, request them to respond within prescribed 30 days from receipt of that RTI Application and also request them to provide FAA of second PIO as expeditiously as possible.
    Wait for 30 days from the date of filing this copy of application and then decide on filing first appeal.
    Thus, it appears to IC that you have been exploring all alternates to get that information from Public Authority.
    I agree that it may be proper to re-send theapplication to PIO No. 2 with a covering letter. Unrelated question for my info - are PIO/FAA designates also officers in the same department? The designation(s) of the sender (and addressee, No. 2) in the letter didn't specifically mention PIO.

  7. Re: RTI to locate original agreement and find out exact stamp duty/penalty amount


    As per the Maharashtra Rules, you can seek information only on one subject, and the request shall not oridinarily exceed 150 workds. If you want information on more than one subject or exceeding 150 workds, you may file separate applications.

    The Jt Registrar or Collector of Stamps have powers to impound the Original Sale Deed in case proper stamp duty is not paid. In such case, the competent authority issue notice demanding short paid stamp duty + penalty. It is better you pay the both and get the Sale Deed released as soon as possible.

    I presume you did not receive any demand notice till today. If you have received so, you may either pay the amount + peanlty or file submssions as to why the stamp duty paid is sufficient and there is no short payment.

    My suggestion is not to file RTI Applciation now. First consult a good lawyer doing title veification /search report etc and apply to the authorities for releasing the document. You may not venture to push the issue through RTI, without complying with the statutory requirement and without pursuing the matter in proper way.

    Approach through lawyer first. Depending upon the situation, you can file RTI applciation and seek the (1) certified copy of note sheet and decision on your reply against demand-notice / impounding order etc.

    Remember, RTI is not an alternate to the Statutory procedures.
    Satyameva Jayate सत्यमेव जयते

  8. Re: RTI to locate original agreement and find out exact stamp duty/penalty amount


    Quote Originally Posted by RAVEENA_O View Post
    As per the Maharashtra Rules, you can seek information only on one subject, and the request shall not oridinarily exceed 150 workds. If you want information on more than one subject or exceeding 150 workds, you may file separate applications.

    The Jt Registrar or Collector of Stamps have powers to impound the Original Sale Deed in case proper stamp duty is not paid. In such case, the competent authority issue notice demanding short paid stamp duty + penalty. It is better you pay the both and get the Sale Deed released as soon as possible.

    Remember, RTI is not an alternate to the Statutory procedures.
    Thank you, RAVEENA_O.

    We were not originally aware of the rules associated with impounding - it was in fact one of my doubts that I queried in the first couple of posts on the forum.

    I understand that statutory procedures take precedence and that laid down rules and procedures must be followed. We do not want to force the issue through RTI either. At the present moment, we’re trying to find out exactly where the document has been retained, so that we can initiate action towards clearing stamp duty/penalty amounts.

    We filed an RTI because city SRO asks us to contact area SRO, and area SRO sends us back to city SRO. This has happened multiple times. Basically the authorities are not co-operating in helping us find out where the document is; perhaps because it pertains to a time nearly 18 years ago.

    We have not yet inquired about the rules associated with impounding, or about payment amount pending, etc.

    Since the RTI application we filed (seeking information on where the document has been retained) has been re-directed to the concerned department (under Sec. 6 (3)), would it be prudent to pursue the matter by requesting them to do the needful? Is the re-direction to the concerned department also a (veiled) response to our query? Not sure.
    Last edited by SureshT; 13-07-17 at 10:16 AM.

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