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  1. #1
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    AJAY KR. BAHL
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    Ministry Of Health Not Replying To Rti Query


    I had asked the following information from the Joint Secretary, Min. of Helath & Family Welfare about the PROCEDURE FOR PASSING OF BILLS PERTAINING TO VARIOUS PRIVATE RECOGNISED HOSPITALS UNDER CGHS Scheme, Delhi for direct/credit treatment of pensioners:
    i.Mandatory time limit for passing of these bills by the PAO (CGHS) upon receipt of the same.

    ii.Whether any system for tracking and processing of these bills in a First in First Out basis exists in the PAO(CGHS).
    iii.The total number of bills pertaining to various private recognized hospital under CGHS along with the dates on which these were received in the Pay & Accounts Office of CGHS from DDO(CZ) during the period 01 Oct 07 to 15 Dec 07. Copy of the bill despatch register of the DDO(CZ) showing the above entries may please also be provided.

    iv.The dates on which the various hospital bills were entered physically in the receipt diary of PAO of CGHS during 01 Oct 07 to 15 Dec 07. Please give copy of those portions of records, which contains details of receipt of the above.

    v.The dates on which these bills were allocated computer number if any and passed along with the date and time it took in passing the bills during the above mentioned duration.

    vi.Please give details and reasons for out of turn disposal of bills, if any.

    vii.Whether these bills were passed within the stipulated time limit of passing the bills or were kept pending for a longer duration.

    viii.Is there any procedure in the ministry through which the information like passing and credit of bill amount and details of deductions made if any is given to various private hospitals by the Pay & Accounts Office and the name of person responsible for providing such information in order to bring transparency in the processing.

    ix.Total amount of payment released to various private recognized hospitals under CGHS Delhi and the amount of TDS and Surcharge collected from these bills during the said duration.

    I had sent the application on 26 Dec 07 but as I did not receive any communication from the ministry I sent an application to the Appellate Authority on 07 Feb 08.

    Till date the only reply I have received is a letter dated 22 Feb 08 from Joint Director (CGHS)(H) stating the my application on the subject has been forwarded to Pay & Accounts Officer(CGHS)(Delhi) for further necessary action. and that it is under the control of chief Controller of Accounts, Min of Health & FW.

    The letter does not contain any details as to when my application was sent to the said office and also the name of person signing the letter is not mentioned. It has not been mentioned whether he is the PIO of any other person designated to deal with RTI Cases.

    Incidentally the Appellate Authority is the same as the person to whom I had sent my first application as that was the only address known to me in the Ministry of health & FW.

    Please advise me for further action which I can go ahead with in seeking the information.


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  2. #2

    Re: Ministry Of Health Not Replying To Rti Query


    In the Ministry's web site it is seen that there is a notification dated 20-2-08, notifying various PIO's etc under the Act. It is seen against entry Deputy Secretary (MS) is the PIO for "All matters relating to CGHS and Medical Services." You may therefore approach him.

  3. #3
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    Re: Ministry Of Health Not Replying To Rti Query


    Since you submitted the First Appeal only on 7 Feb 2008, please wait till atleast 22 March 2008 (and a few days more to allow for postal delays) since the AA has 30 + 15 days to take action.
    Please remember:
    1. Did the letter of 22 Feb, that you mention, say anywhere that the application is being transferred under Sec 6(3) ?
    2. Also, the PIO should have transferred the application within 5 days as mandated in Sec 6(3).
    3. Irrespective of whether CGHS AA/PIO say that Sec 6)3) is applicable or not, ask for Penalty under Sec 20 at the rate of Rs 250.00 per day in delay of providing information.

  4. #4
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    Re: Ministry Of Health Not Replying To Rti Query



    Thanks for your reply.
    Would like to mention here that the letter dt. 22 Feb dois not mention that the application is being transferred under Sec 6(3) or any other Section.
    The name of person signing the letter or the date on which my application was transferred is also not given

  5. #5
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    Re: Ministry Of Health Not Replying To Rti Query


    Quote Originally Posted by bahl_ajay View Post
    Thanks for your reply.
    Would like to mention here that the letter dt. 22 Feb dois not mention that the application is being transferred under Sec 6(3) or any other Section.
    The name of person signing the letter or the date on which my application was transferred is also not given

    It seems that your application itself has not been handled properly. At least the casual reply that you have will prove that your application was received.

    In this case it can be construed as "deemed" denial of information:

    - Even the communication you received was dated beyond the mandated 30 days.
    - Not signed by the PIO or deemed PIO
    - Signatory not clearly visible and cannot be identified
    - Not following Sec 6(3) properly (did not transfer within 5 days, did not inform you about transfer within 30 days, etc etc)
    - Was Sec 6(3) necessary at all ?
    Could be it is the same Public Authority (CGHS) so it should be under under Sec 5(4)

    Suggest that you also have a look at various decisions about CGHS available on CIC

  6. #6
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    Re: Ministry Of Health Not Replying To Rti Query


    The reply given by the Sr. Accounts Officer CGHS is given below. It may please be noted that the reply though in response to the 1<SUP>st</SUP> Appeal to the AA does not bear the signatures of either the AA or the PIO.
    i. Time limit for passing/returning of the bills in PAO CGHS is five days
    ii. System of tracking the processing of bills on first come first serve basis or as per token No. exist in compact programme as pendancy of bills is depicted in pre-check module which is being watchedat three level ie. Dealing hand, AAO and PAO level.
    iii. Copy of the bill diary register of the Hospital bills for the period is enclosed.
    iv. Same as mentioned above.
    v. Copy of the token register enclosed further details of passing like date of passing copy of ECS for the period is enclosed. Regarding time taken it is covered under guide for the information seekers under RTI Act 2005 Para 4.
    vi. Covered under a guide for the information seekers under RTI Act 2005 Para 4.
    vii. Same as at vi.
    viii. No such procedure so far. DDO CZ is providing information like deduction of TDS, surcharge etc.
    ix. All the relevant records for the period has been provided total as such for the period is not available in the records, which can be worked out from the records.
    <O
    However none of the information asked for has been provided and the Sr. AO who it seems is not aware of the RTI Act or is clever enough so as not to provide the information and has asked to deposit a huge sum of Rs.2646/- for 287 pages of information most of the information I had asked for is not being provided but some other documents are being made available, apart from Rs.100/- which have already been paid. As can be seen from the above that this is non-application of rules both by the Sr. Accounts Officer CGHS and the AA. As irrelevant answers have been given and the applicant has been advised to read the guide for information seekers under RTI Act 2005 Para 4.<O
    Further there seems no justification for asking such a huge amount for providing the information. Which should have been provided free of any cost as the mandatory time limit of 30 days for providing the information has lapsed and the reply given by the Sr. AO CGHS is when the appeal has been made to the AA.<O
    Would like to know whether the applicant to the CIC on these grounds and under what rules.

  7. #7
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    Re: Ministry Of Health Not Replying To Rti Query


    Looks as if the Sr Accounts Officer, CGHS becomes the "deemed" PIO in this case. That is why he has signed the letter instead of the PIO/AA.

    You can go for Second Appeal:

    1. If you feel that information given to you is incorrect, incomplete or misleading.
    (Just make sure that you can justify the above, point by point, before the CIC).

    2. PIO must proviode details of calculations as to how he arrived at that figure for further fees or additional fees under Sec 7(3). Please read the following thread:
    http://www.rtiindia.org/forum/2156-s...ct-2005-a.html

    Why did you pay Rs 100/- even before being asked to pay additional fees ? Application fee is only Rs 10/-. If you have paid more than please seek refund of Rs 90/-.

    3. If information is already available from the Public Authority under Sec 4, then PIO can ask you to refer to that. But how is an applicant supposed to know where to see that information. PIO has not informed you that. He should have said refer to......(notice board/internet website, publication, booklet, etc). He has not even sent you the "guide" he is referring to. This can be construed as "deemed" denial of information.

    4. In you Second Appeal, give the relevant dates and "pray/make a plea" that the information should be provided to you "free of cost", since the PIO has replied beyond the mandated 30 days

    Before drafting your Second Appeal, please read the following very carefully:

    http://www.rtiindia.org/forum/1089-c...ns-2007-a.html
    Last edited by karira; 17-03-08 at 10:42 PM. Reason: adding more points

  8. #8
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    Re: Ministry Of Health Not Replying To Rti Query


    Dear Karira,
    1. I have not been provided with any relevant information at all.
    2. The total no. of pages he has intimated is 287 including those documents which I had never asked for. Anticipating the cost of documents required by me and to avoid any further delay I had paid an amount of Rs.10/- + Rs.100/- in advance.
    3. No such information is available anywhere I have already checked this.
    4. Have sent an appeal to the AA through e-mail after receiving the reply of Sr. AO. would like to wait for his reply.
    5. Does the appeal sent thru email hold valid grounds before the CIC.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by bahl_ajay; 17-03-08 at 11:09 PM. Reason: had posted incomplete reply

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